The Baha'i Studies Listserv On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 1:37 PM, Susan Maneck <sman...@gmail.com> wrote:
G: > For >> example Ghadeer Khum is in the Sunni hadith collections too and Sunnis >> largely agree with Shias on the outward facts, but with a very >> different understanding. In terms of the current discussion, > In other words, they agree with the account which clearly demonstrates > that Muhammad appointed Ali as His successor. No. They agree that certain words were said which Shia INTERPRET one way, and Sunnis INTERPRET another. The disagreement isn't on reporting basic facts, but in the interpretation. [quoting] >> Allah have mercy on Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal, he abhorred speaking ill >> even of Yazid ibn Mu`awiya because the latter lived in one of the >> centuries praised by our Holy Prophet, > > For the benefit of those Baha'is who are less familiar with Islam, let > me point out that Ibn Hanbal was the founder of the most conservative > school of Sunni Islam, the one the Wahhabis adhere to. The comment is not really true or illuminating. Ahmad ibn Hanbal was the founder of one of the four traditional Sunni schools and he died in the 9th century. Muhammad ibn abdul Wahab lived roughly a thousand years later and was a Muslim "reformer" who in certain respects actually goes against Muslim tradition. There are even Muslims who have no problem with the Hanbali school who would question whether the Wahabis can even be considered Sunnis. (part of the issue is whether the Wahabis are even Hanbalis or something much less traditional). In any case, the idea of refraining from saying negative things about the companions is hardly unique to Imam Ahmad. > Now let's deconstruct his statement. He is not going to speak ill > *even* of Yazid (which implies there is a good deal to speak evil of) > because he is the son of Mu'awiya. And what does Mu'awiya have in his > favor? He was a Companion. Which for Sunni Islam is a great deal. > > Okay, thank you very much for this evidence that Sunni Muslims aren't > allowed to do any real historical analysis of this period of their > history. I don't see why you are having so much trouble with this. I wish you would try to read more wholistically and respond that way because it feels like you are just glossing over things which don't fit into your preconceived notions. By all means describe the actual objective events of the period. But talking about the character, intentions, piety, sincerity is not (I think) part of an objective description. There are sunni hadith where Muhammad explicitly names 10 people who by their piety were guaranteed Paradise. And yet some of these individuals found themselves on opposite sides of the battlefield. War and conflict can be complex. Sometimes good people can have a difference of opinion and end up fighting one another. I would suggest that the Sunni approach which resists demonizing one side is more complex and more "real" than a simpler story of saintly heroes and villains in black hats. (And I'm NOT talking about Kerbala. I'm talking about the earlier period of fighting between Companions) I also am a little surprised by your approach because I think that what I'm saying doesn't seem all that different from the Bahai concept of the sin-covering eye. In Bahaullah and the New Era (p82-83) it says: The Sin-covering Eye On no subject are the Bahá’í teaching more imperative and uncompromising than on the requirement to abstain from faultfinding. Christ spoke very strongly on the same subject, but it has now become usual to regard the Sermon on the Mount as embodying “Counsels of Perfection” which the ordinary Christian cannot be expected to live up to. Both Bahá’u’lláh and ‘Abdu’l-Bahá are at great pains to make it clear that on this subject They mean all They say. We read in the Hidden Words:— O Son of Man! Breathe not the sins of others so long as thou art thyself a sinner. Shouldst thou transgress this command, accursed wouldst thou be, and to this I bear witness. O Son of Being! Ascribe not to any soul that which thou wouldst not have ascribed to thee, and say not that which thou doest not. This is My command unto thee, do thou observe it. 83 ‘Abdu’l-Bahá tells us:— To be silent concerning the faults of others, to pray for them, and to help them, through kindness, to correct their faults. To look always at the good and not at the bad. If a man has ten good qualities and one bad one, to look at the ten and forget the one; and if a man has ten bad qualities and one good one, to look at the one and forget the ten. Never to allow ourselves to speak one unkind word about another, even though that other be our enemy. To an American friend He writes:— The worst human quality and the most great sin is backbiting, more especially when it emanates from the tongues of the believers of God. If some means were devised so that the doors of backbiting could be shut eternally, and each one of the believers of God unsealed his lips in praise of others, then the teachings of His Holiness Bahá’u’lláh would be spread, the hearts illumined, the spirits glorified, and the human world would attain to everlasting felicity. [endquote] So especially given the conflicts between Sunnis and Shias in the world today and in the past, I would actually argue that refusing to demonize any of the companions is a healthy and sensible corrective. __________________________________________________ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-534475-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
