The Baha'i Studies Listserv Which passages in the Bible did you have in mind? One which comes to mind is Jesus saying "The poor you will always have with you" although I suppose that could be connected to the Ebionites (literally "Poor Ones") or maybe even the "poor in spirit" of the beatitudes. But I don't know which passages you are thinking of in terms of voluntary giving.
In terms of voluntary vs. government, I would suggest that the Old Testament Torah lifestyle would have been ideally enforced by a system of judges or later a king. At the very least, there are a number of practices which are implemented by the society as a whole (like declaring a Jubilee year). In terms of Islam, obviously for Muslims living in the West, paying zakat or almsgiving etc. is voluntary but there as well I would suggest that in the "ideal" situation such a measure would be administered and enforced by the state (similar to the IRS). And to do the subject justice would require a serious conversation but I think if you read the Gospels and take what Jesus says about wealth and social justice and "the least of these" seriously it it implies a much more radical and committed change is lifestyle than most people are willing to easily accept. IT is certainly a more radical than an endorsement of free market capitalism plus voluntary giving to charity. On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 4:40 PM, Stephen Gray <skg_z...@yahoo.com> wrote: > The Baha'i Studies Listserv > > There is difference between means and ends. For example, there are so called > social justice passages in the Bible. They refer to religion permeating a > society so much that people's charity would be enough to alleviate poverty. > Jesus and the prophets talks to ordinary people to give to charity not the > gov'ts. Judeo-Christian-Islamic justice implies widespread charity in a > society, tithing (10% JC or 2.5-20% I), and voluntary offerings. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alms > > In Judiasm, Tzedekah means both charity and justice (as well as fairness and > righteousness). > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tzedakah > > Who's to say an increase in the job market, more self-employment, more > independent contractors, more investors, more business owners isn't the > solution? > > Really, the issue requires us to reflect on how wealth is created. > > Ever since the beginning of human civilization, the gap was wide, but ever > since the Industrial Revolution that gap has been steadily but slowly > dissapearing. The natural state is poverty, but eventualy through free > market oppurtunities, everyone will be wealthy. > > ________________________________ > From: Susan Maneck <sman...@gmail.com> > To: Baha'i Studies <bahai-st@list.jccc.edu> > Sent: Wed, October 27, 2010 3:16:41 PM > Subject: Re: The Future of Religion > > The Baha'i Studies Listserv > Dear Stephen, > > You are correct that the concept of social justice has connotations > which go beyond our Western concern with liberty. Keep in mind that > one of the primary Baha'i principles is the elimination of the > extremes of poverty and wealth. That is part of what justice means in > a Baha'i context. > > warmest, Susan > > On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 12:43 PM, Stephen Gray <skg_z...@yahoo.com> wrote: >> The Baha'i Studies Listserv >> >> Why did the UHJ use the term social justice? The word is politically >> loaded. >> Even though everyone is okay with a society based on justice. The term has >> political meanings rather than that. >> >> ________________________________ >> From: Susan Maneck <sman...@gmail.com> >> To: Baha'i Studies <bahai-st@list.jccc.edu> >> Sent: Wed, October 27, 2010 10:24:22 AM >> Subject: Re: The Future of Religion >> >> The Baha'i Studies Listserv >> It might be useful to review the One Common Faith document in this >> connection: >> >> http://reference.bahai.org/en/t/bic/OCF/ >> >> __________________________________________________ >> You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:skg_z...@yahoo.com >> Unsubscribe: send a blank email to >> mailto:leave-535645-1719008.2a3842ae5b2f7d34dd5fdfc724616...@list.jccc.edu >> Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to >> ly...@list.jccc.edu >> Or subscribe: >> http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st >> Baha'i Studies is available through the following: >> Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu >> Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st >> News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st >> Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net >> New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu >> >> __________________________________________________ >> You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:sman...@gmail.com >> Unsubscribe: send a blank email to >> mailto:leave-535693-738796.0f462312a2f7bdde70e0bbead78e3...@list.jccc.edu >> Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to >> ly...@list.jccc.edu >> Or subscribe: >> http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st >> Baha'i Studies is available through the following: >> Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu >> Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st >> News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st >> Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net >> New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu > > __________________________________________________ > You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:skg_z...@yahoo.com > Unsubscribe: send a blank email to > mailto:leave-535752-1719008.2a3842ae5b2f7d34dd5fdfc724616...@list.jccc.edu > Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to > ly...@list.jccc.edu > Or subscribe: > http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st > Baha'i Studies is available through the following: > Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu > Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st > News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st > Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net > New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu > > __________________________________________________ > You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:gilberto.simp...@gmail.com > Unsubscribe: send a blank email to > mailto:leave-535760-68452.e157d5dc5efabb63696f251595c88...@list.jccc.edu > Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to > ly...@list.jccc.edu > Or subscribe: > http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st > Baha'i Studies is available through the following: > Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu > Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st > News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st > Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net > New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu __________________________________________________ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-535769-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
