The Baha'i Studies Listserv Hmm, just to be clear, when I said that "there is only one true religion" I meant that all major religions are part of that one true religion (I was certainly NOT implying that the Baha'i Faith alone was that one true religon, God forbid!. Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Zoroastrianism, Hinduism, and the native faiths af all peoples are part of the same, one, true religion.
Ron On Sat, Dec 18, 2010 at 7:53 AM, Ursus Maximus <ursusmaxi...@gmail.com>wrote: > The Baha'i Studies Listserv > > This is an interesting thread, though a few times it has gotten mean, nasty > and insulting, which is a shame. Gilberto, I find your reasoning > reasonable. We should all be able to see that these are theological matters, > and as such are open to interpretation and reasonable people can disagree. > > Khazeh and Moojan Momen, thank you for a most wonderful exposition of the > Baha’i understanding of these matters! I thoroughly enjoyed reading your > posts. > > I seem to me that, every Prophet, or Manifestation, or whatever you call > the founders of new religious traditions, has been described in words that > in one way or another make Him seem higher, greater, and more important than > any previous or subsequent Religious Leader could ever be. Now, we in the > Baha’i Faith see ours as the all time crowning Revelation that can never be > topped (at least for 500,000 years!), just like Islam, Christianity and all > the rest have seen their Founders and their Revelation. > > From my simple minded viewpoint, there is a real danger of the Baha’i Faith > becoming just another one of the many squabbling religions on earth, all > fighting to become the one true faith of everyone, each fighting to win > adherents and prove their superiority over all the other religions. I think > if we do become that, we will have failed miserably. > > Far better to be a force for unity, not by doing the impossible and getting > everyone to abandon all other religions and become Baha’is, but rather by > being a force of light, interfaith dialogue, moderation, tolerance and > understanding amongst and between those of all faiths. > > Of course our Central Figures, writing in the Persian language and from > within the Persian culture, with its tendency to extreme hyperbole and > flowery language, at times emphasize the superiority of our Faith and the > dire urgency with which others should convert. That is great, it is the > right, prerogative, and duty of Them to do so, especially the Founder of our > Faith. > > But is not our right, duty and prerogative. Rather it is our duty and role > to promote our Faith with humility , comporting ourselves with moderation > and restraint, leading others to the Light by force of example of how we > comport ourselves and letting the fruit we bear be our testimony, along with > our modest exposition of our humble understandings of scripture. > > Of course I am one of the worst examples of a Baha’i following the above > rules. That is why I am so glad to be able to point to Khazeh and Moojan > Momen as shining examples of the kind of behavior I am talking about above > and urging us all to try to emulate. > > At the end of the day, all of the theologically fine distinctions between > prophets, manifestations, rasul and nabil (sp) and such are words and words > only, beginning and ending with words. > > There is only one true religion. We Baha’is are following what we humbly > perceive to be the latest and clearest light for our time, and we proudly > and lovingly share the stage with those radiant souls who follow the sister > faiths which are all part of the one true religion. Gilberto and all, we > salute you! > > Ron > > > On Sat, Dec 18, 2010 at 4:23 AM, Khazeh <aqu...@dsl.pipex.com> wrote: > >> The Baha'i Studies Listserv >> >> >> - *From:* *Moojan Momen* >> - *Date:* Fri, 13 Aug 1999 05:42:12 >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> *The Baha'i Studies List* >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> The Day of Resurrection >> >> >> >> Some Muslims may object to the Bahá'í interpretation of the Day of >> >> Judgement by saying that the Day of Judgement is also the Day of >> >> Resurrection and yet the dead have not risen from their graves. Bahá'ís >> >> would respond by saying that just as the Day of Judgement has a >> >> metaphorical meaning and a spiritual fulfilment, so also does the Day of >> >> Resurrection. Those who are spiritually dead are raised to a new >> >> spiritual life with the coming of each Messenger of God. Indeed the >> >> Qur'án states, for example that a resurrection occurred in the past with >> >> the coming of Moses: >> >> >> >> And remember ye said: `O Moses! We shall never believe in thee until we >> >> see God manifestly,' but ye were dazed with thunder and lighting even as >> >> ye looked on. Then We raised you up after your death: Ye had the chance >> >> to be grateful. (2:55-6) >> >> >> >> The Arabs were in the depths of spiritual degradation before the coming >> >> of Muhammad. According to the Qur'án, they had such practices as burying >> >> their infant daughters alive. They were as ones who were spiritually >> >> dead. The coming of Muhammad brought them back to spiritual life; it >> >> resurrected them. This understanding of spiritual death and spiritual >> >> life is accordance with the following verse of the Qur'án which tells >> >> the Muslims that they were dead and God gave them life: >> >> >> >> How can ye not believe in God when ye were dead and He gave life to you! >> >> (2: 28) >> >> >> >> This verse is in the past tense and so clearly refers to the fact that >> >> Muhammad had brought spiritual life to the Arabs, who had not been >> >> physically dead, but spiritually. Similarly, the Qur'án refers to >> >> Hamzah's conversion to Islam in a way that makes it clear that when >> >> death and life are referred to, it is spiritual death and spiritual life >> >> that is meant: >> >> >> >> Can he who was dead and to whom We gave life and a light whereby he can >> >> walk amongst men, be like him who is in the depths of darkness from >> >> which he can never come out? (6:122) >> >> >> >> From these examples and others,(32) it is clear that the Qur'án is >> >> mainly concerned with spiritual life and death. And so when it speaks of >> >> the Day of Resurrection, it is the spiritual raising up of the >> >> spiritually dead to life that is meant. This is what happens whenever a >> >> new Messenger of God comes (as has already been discussed above for the >> >> Day of Resurrection). The Qur'án describes a cycle of destruction and >> >> regeneration. But this destruction is not a literal physical >> >> destruction, it is a spiritual destruction, a spiritual death. When they >> >> reject the new Messenger of God, the people become spiritually dead. The >> >> fact that there is not a complete physical destruction and death is >> >> proved by the statement in the Qur'án that God always raises up to >> >> spiritual life from among them a new people who believe in the new >> >> Messenger and adopt his teachings. >> >> >> >> See they not how many of those before them We did destroy? Generations >> >> We had established on the earth in strength such as We have not given to >> >> you for whom We poured out rain from the skies in abundance and gave >> >> (fertile) streams flowing beneath their (feet): yet for their sins We >> >> destroyed them and raised in their wake fresh generations (to succeed >> >> them). (6:6) >> >> >> >> This raising to life of the new people and the new generation is >> >> achieved through the coming of a new Messenger of God and a new Book. >> >> Thus for example, regarding Moses, it is stated in the Qur'án that: >> >> >> >> We did reveal to Moses the Book after We had destroyed the earlier >> >> generations (to give) Insight to men and Guidance and Mercy that they >> >> might receive admonition. (28: 43) >> >> >> >> It is this pattern of the eventual spiritual death of each people >> >> followed by the raising up by God of a new generation through a new >> >> Messenger of God that is the meaning of the Day of Resurrection >> >> (Qiyáma). The Muslims are also part of this process. They were also >> >> raised up as a new generation from the posterity of other peoples >> >> through the coming of the Prophet Muhammad: >> >> >> >> Thy Lord is Self-sufficient full of Mercy: if it were His Will He could >> >> destroy you and in your place appoint whom He will as your successors >> >> even as he raised you up from the posterity of other people. (6: 133) >> >> >> >> The Qur'án prophesies a future Day of Resurrection, which would occur >> >> with the coming of another Messenger of God. For example, the Qur'án >> >> speaks of a series of deaths and resurrections that had and will happen >> >> to the Muslims. It states that they had been (spiritually) dead before >> >> Islam, but through Islam had been brought to life again (resurrected). >> >> Then it states that at some stage in the future they would die again and >> >> then be brought to life again. Since the Qur'án uses exactly the same >> >> words within the same verse about what had happened in the past and what >> >> will happen in the future, it is clear that what will occur in the >> >> future will be the same as what happened in the past - in other words >> >> that the Muslim would in the future again be spiritually dead and would, >> >> through the coming of a new Messenger and a new religion from God, be >> >> raised to life again. >> >> >> >> How can ye reject the faith in God? Seeing that ye were without life and >> >> He gave you life; then will He cause you to die and will again bring you >> >> to life; and again to Him will ye return. (2:28) >> >> >> >> Bahá'ís have interpreted many other passages of the Qur'án as referring >> >> to Bahá'u'lláh's coming. For example there is the following verse: >> >> >> >> And listen for the Day when the Caller (al-munádí) will call out from a >> >> place quite near (50:41) >> >> >> >> The Caller (al-munádí) is identified elsewhere in the Qur'án as `one who >> >> calls people to Faith (ímán) (Qur'án 3:193)', in other words a Messenger >> >> of God. This verse is followed by one that clearly connects the coming >> >> of this Messenger of God with the Day of Resurrection: >> >> >> >> The day when they will hear a (mighty) Blast in (very) truth: that will >> >> be the day of Resurrection. (50:42) >> >> >> >> Indeed, elsewhere in the Qur'án the Day of Resurrection is called`the >> >> day of Mutual Calling'.(33) The `place quite near' to Medina, where >> >> Muhammad revealed this verse of the Qur'án is believed by Bahá'ís to >> >> refer to the city of `Akká in Syria where Bahá'u'lláh was imprisoned and >> >> from where he addressed his call to humankind. >> >> The word `ad-dá`í' also appears in the Qur'án and can also be translated >> >> as `the caller' or `one who invites'. This word is also used to describe >> >> the Messengers of God. Thus for example, Muhammad is addressed thus: >> >> >> >> O Prophet! Truly We have sent thee as a Witness a Bearer of Glad Tidings >> >> and a Warner and as one who invites (ad-dá`í) to God's (Grace) by His >> >> leave and as a Lamp spreading Light. (33:45-6)(34) >> >> >> >> In the Qur'án, it is clearly prophesied that on the Day of Judgement >> >> (20:100), another Caller (ad-dá`í), in other words another Messenger of >> >> God, will appear and: `On that Day will they follow the Caller (ad- >> >> dá`í)' (20:108). >> >> This promise of the appearance of a Caller (ad-dá`í) on the Day of >> >> Judgement is made even more clearly in the Súrah of al-Qamar. This Súrah >> >> begins by stating that "the Hour (of Judgement) is nigh. (54:1)' This >> >> súrah goes on to say that the people will ignore the signs that come to >> >> them of the day of Judgement and it advises Muhammad that, since they >> >> will not listen, he should turn away from them until: >> >> >> >> The day that the Caller will call (them) to a terrible affair. They will >> >> come forth their eyes humbled from (their) graves (torpid) like locusts >> >> scattered abroad, hastening with eyes transfixed towards the Caller! >> >> "Hard is this Day!" the Unbelievers will say. (54:6-8) >> >> >> >> Then as if to emphasis the point that this Caller that will appear on >> >> the Day of Judgement will be a Messenger of God, the súrah goes on to >> >> say that this will be like the days of Noah when the people rejected >> >> their Messenger and God punished them with a severe penalty as a >> >> warning. The súrah goes on to give similar accounts of the coming of >> >> several Messengers of God, such as Húd who was sent as a warner to the >> >> people of `Ád, Sálih, who was sent as a warner to the people of Thamud, >> >> Lot, and Moses. The message of the súrah to Muslims is clear: Messengers >> >> of God came to these other people and they were punished by God when >> >> they rejected them; a Messenger of God (a Caller) will also come to the >> >> Muslims and they should be warned by this súrah not to reject him. >> >> >> >> >> >> NOTES >> >> >> >> 32. See also Qur'án 3:169, where those slain in the path of God are >> >> said to be alive (i.e. spiritually alive even though physically dead); >> >> while in Qur'án 16:20-21, it is stated that those who are living should >> >> be accounted as among the dead if they participate in idolatry >> >> 33. Qur'án 40:32 >> >> 34. See also Qur'án 46:31-2 where the reference to ad-dá`í is also >> >> clearly to a Messenger of God >> >> 35. `we make no difference between any of them,' Qur'án 2: 136. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Dr Moojan Momen >> >> >> >> __________________________________________________ >> You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:ursusmaxi...@gmail.com >> Unsubscribe: send a blank email to >> mailto:leave-547728-193154.cd7639b4f32d68d299933c46032cd...@list.jccc.edu >> Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu >> Or subscribe: >> http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st >> Baha'i Studies is available through the following: >> Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu >> Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st >> News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st >> Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net >> New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu >> >> > __________________________________________________ > You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:ursusmaxi...@gmail.com > > Unsubscribe: send a blank email to > mailto:leave-547736-193154.cd7639b4f32d68d299933c46032cd...@list.jccc.edu > > Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu > Or subscribe: > http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st > Baha'i Studies is available through the following: > Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu > Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st > News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st > Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net > New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu > > __________________________________________________ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-547740-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
