Hi, Here is the log of the chatroom at http://farsides.com/chat/ (or irc://irc.freenode.net/#farsides) for the 2011-03-20.
2011-03-20 01:02:26+0000 antoviaque (antoviaque) is now online 2011-03-20 07:49:29+0000 antoviaque (antoviaque) is now online 2011-03-20 11:05:35+0000 antoviaque (antoviaque) is now online 2011-03-20 12:57:16+0000 dachary (dachary) is now online 2011-03-20 12:57:22+0000 <dachary> Hey 2011-03-20 12:57:25+0000 <dachary> FYI http://dachary.org/?p=191 2011-03-20 12:57:34+0000 <dachary> giving up on opensocial 2011-03-20 12:57:54+0000 <antoviaque> oh... 2011-03-20 12:57:59+0000 * antoviaque is reading 2011-03-20 12:58:37+0000 <dachary> antoviaque: it's corporate owned & opaque to Free Software 2011-03-20 12:58:59+0000 <dachary> this is something that was already there last year 2011-03-20 12:59:26+0000 <dachary> but I managed anyway, hoping it would become better 2011-03-20 12:59:46+0000 <dachary> I turns out that it is getting even worse 2011-03-20 13:00:16+0000 <dachary> apparently shindig is the last active component led by a google employee 2011-03-20 13:00:55+0000 <dachary> oh well 2011-03-20 13:01:09+0000 <antoviaque> huhu... 2011-03-20 13:03:49+0000 <antoviaque> Do you know if it's actually used by projects, even outside of the free software world? Reading what you wrote, it looks like a problem of general energy put into OpenSocial, like if those responsible for it don't really want to push it 2011-03-20 13:04:14+0000 <antoviaque> But haven't dug much, so I don't know 2011-03-20 13:04:56+0000 <antoviaque> http://shindig.apache.org/ => "The connection was reset" 2011-03-20 13:05:51+0000 <dachary> it's used by companies, yes 2011-03-20 13:06:03+0000 <dachary> actually it's only used by companies 2011-03-20 13:06:20+0000 <dachary> and this is the problem 2011-03-20 13:06:35+0000 <dachary> they have no interest whatsover in sharing with the outside world 2011-03-20 13:06:47+0000 <dachary> they have been imposed opensocial by the mangement at some point 2011-03-20 13:06:56+0000 <dachary> and they use it 2011-03-20 13:07:02+0000 <dachary> they don't contribute to it 2011-03-20 13:07:31+0000 <dachary> it's very much like collada in that respect 2011-03-20 13:07:52+0000 <dachary> it happened because managers decided it but there is no individual behind it 2011-03-20 13:08:06+0000 <antoviaque> But they would still need to keep updates & all public - at least at the level Facebook is, if they hope to get app developers to use it 2011-03-20 13:08:42+0000 <dachary> I agree 2011-03-20 13:09:45+0000 <dachary> But that does not happen. It's a corporate driven project with a complete lack of leadership. Very much like collada. Or neufbox :-) 2011-03-20 13:10:12+0000 <antoviaque> Yup, reading their blog, it seems very corporate 2011-03-20 13:11:37+0000 <antoviaque> Even the tone of Facebook's developer website is more dev-friendly, which is quite a underachievement 2011-03-20 13:12:29+0000 <dachary> :-) 2011-03-20 13:12:45+0000 <antoviaque> Do you think that there is something we could do at Farsides that would help, here? 2011-03-20 13:12:53+0000 <dachary> No. 2011-03-20 13:13:22+0000 <dachary> It's a dead end. But that's not too much of a concern, I think. 2011-03-20 13:13:46+0000 <antoviaque> Then what's the next step? 2011-03-20 13:14:11+0000 <dachary> Of what ? 2011-03-20 13:14:29+0000 <antoviaque> For Free Software social network games 2011-03-20 13:14:38+0000 <dachary> I don't know. 2011-03-20 13:14:42+0000 <antoviaque> hmm 2011-03-20 13:16:13+0000 <antoviaque> Because we can't possibly ignore that world - from the player perspective it's like staying in the past, and a huge conversion blocker 2011-03-20 13:16:52+0000 <antoviaque> hmmm 2011-03-20 13:17:52+0000 <dachary> http://en.netlog.com/go/explore/apps/ 2011-03-20 13:18:12+0000 <dachary> netlog opensocial applications 2011-03-20 13:18:20+0000 <antoviaque> This is especially tricky, because with social networks the critical mass effect plays even more - even if we supported things like Diaspora it wouldn't completely solve the issue 2011-03-20 13:18:23+0000 <dachary> I can't believe there are so little of them 2011-03-20 13:18:23+0000 * antoviaque looking 2011-03-20 13:19:58+0000 * antoviaque registering... 2011-03-20 13:20:49+0000 <antoviaque> Well if it is that hostile, I'm not that surprised actually 2011-03-20 13:22:30+0000 <dachary> http://en.netlog.com/play/directory 2011-03-20 13:22:40+0000 <dachary> it's real confusing 2011-03-20 13:24:57+0000 <antoviaque> But the specs are open, right? So potentially we could develop/maintain a PHP library here if we need one, no? 2011-03-20 13:26:13+0000 <dachary> yes. But the specs are complex and change for the worst in that respect. 2011-03-20 13:26:32+0000 <dachary> Trying to accomodate the needs for all stakeholder. 2011-03-20 13:26:57+0000 <antoviaque> Yup... But that's also a bit the case with W3C, right? 2011-03-20 13:27:24+0000 <dachary> apparently the http://en.netlog.com/play/directory games sections is unrelated to opensocial 2011-03-20 13:28:16+0000 <antoviaque> ah, so basically each social network has his own API, and when they want to they update their support of OpenSocial that nobody uses? 2011-03-20 13:28:45+0000 <dachary> more or less,yes 2011-03-20 13:28:49+0000 <antoviaque> humpf 2011-03-20 13:28:57+0000 <antoviaque> too good to be true 2011-03-20 13:29:10+0000 <dachary> it's not as bad as you suggest 2011-03-20 13:29:16+0000 <dachary> but it's bad 2011-03-20 13:30:49+0000 <antoviaque> But it could also be related to the state of the free software games, too - since nobody develops games with that philosophy (unlike on the W3C side), it is left in the hands of the ones who don't care 2011-03-20 13:31:11+0000 <dachary> I think it boils down to use the social network as a SSO + a messenging system to suggest your friends to install the application. Once it's done everything happens on the application server. 2011-03-20 13:33:04+0000 <antoviaque> Yup, but the messenging system is a big part - it's basically what the whole social network concept is about 2011-03-20 13:33:10+0000 <dachary> I agree with the free software game state. 2011-03-20 13:33:31+0000 <antoviaque> the level of detail you need to care about with messaging is very high 2011-03-20 13:33:46+0000 <dachary> antoviaque: does facebook allow the application to make use of the messenging system ? 2011-03-20 13:34:37+0000 <antoviaque> yes - they control and restrict what and how you use in it, but it's the main appeal for game developers 2011-03-20 13:34:58+0000 <antoviaque> the SSO part removes a barrier, but the main part is the social interactions 2011-03-20 13:38:23+0000 <dachary> antoviaque: do you know of a game / application that makes use of these social interactions ? 2011-03-20 13:39:24+0000 <antoviaque> I don't know much the OpenSocial part, but all the successful Facebook apps do - I can give you a few examples if you're ready to get there and see it : ) 2011-03-20 13:40:35+0000 <antoviaque> You can also see it in the specs of Card Stories 2011-03-20 13:40:57+0000 <antoviaque> http://farsides.com/wiki/Card_Stories_-_Beta1.0_Specifications 2011-03-20 13:42:07+0000 <antoviaque> But it's hard to get a feel like this - like most things related to human interaction, the only way is usually to experiement it for yourself for some time 2011-03-20 13:44:29+0000 <antoviaque> That's actually one of the rare areas where I think Eben Moglen is wrong - when he depicts Facebook as "free Web hosting with some PHP doodads and APIs", he really underestimates the time and energy spent into making the interactions relevant to users 2011-03-20 13:44:56+0000 <antoviaque> *that* is hard, not the technology 2011-03-20 13:46:27+0000 <dachary> I would like a successfull apps to try, yes. I'm curious. 2011-03-20 13:49:48+0000 <antoviaque> Try http://apps.facebook.com/cityville/ or Farmville (but you'll need Flash...) 2011-03-20 13:49:54+0000 <antoviaque> Let me try to find one without Flash 2011-03-20 13:50:10+0000 <dachary> I'll try with flash 2011-03-20 13:50:30+0000 <antoviaque> It's basically a social SimCity 2011-03-20 13:51:42+0000 <antoviaque> Where they mix social exchanges in the middle of the gameplay - you need others to do things for you to grow faster, more easily... 2011-03-20 13:54:14+0000 <antoviaque> You have several components: 2011-03-20 13:54:57+0000 <antoviaque> 1) Posting on the player's wall (or on his friend's walls sometimes), to attract the attention of others when they spend time talking with others on their feed 2011-03-20 13:55:32+0000 <antoviaque> 2) Invites, that allow to propose to friends to come to the game, usually in exchange for an advantage in the game 2011-03-20 13:56:22+0000 <antoviaque> 3) Visibility of others' profiles and gameplay - to go visit somebody else's town, see who is playing, etc. 2011-03-20 13:58:04+0000 <antoviaque> But all of those are integrated in very specific ways, slight modifications can make huge changes, even aside of the gameplay itself 2011-03-20 14:00:31+0000 <dachary> I'm trying to invite you by entering your email in farmville.com but it says the page "does not exist" 2011-03-20 14:00:53+0000 <dachary> could you invite [email protected] ? 2011-03-20 14:00:59+0000 <dachary> I'm using her facebook account ;-) 2011-03-20 14:01:06+0000 <antoviaque> ahah, ok 2011-03-20 14:01:20+0000 <antoviaque> First I need to add her as a friend 2011-03-20 14:02:10+0000 <dachary> I think not 2011-03-20 14:02:24+0000 <dachary> there is a box at the bottom of the neighbor invitations 2011-03-20 14:02:33+0000 <dachary> that allow you to enter email addresses 2011-03-20 14:03:10+0000 <antoviaque> Maybe because you play from Famville.com 2011-03-20 14:03:28+0000 <antoviaque> It's Facebook connect, which is different from the FB apps 2011-03-20 14:03:34+0000 <antoviaque> let me see 2011-03-20 14:05:04+0000 <dachary> yes 2011-03-20 14:05:30+0000 <dachary> but I did not mean that you must not add agnes as a friend if it's easier for you 2011-03-20 14:05:31+0000 <antoviaque> That's actually a good illustration of my point above: most players do not want to play "outside of facebook", even if technically it doesn't mean much 2011-03-20 14:06:15+0000 <antoviaque> For things like that: instead of having to find a friends email, they will just pick it up from thir list of friends 2011-03-20 14:06:28+0000 <antoviaque> And search for farmville in the facebook search 2011-03-20 14:06:57+0000 <antoviaque> "Inviting a friend" has thus two very separate actions: adding the person as a friend, and then later on interacting with him/her in games 2011-03-20 14:07:11+0000 <dachary> i understand 2011-03-20 14:07:17+0000 <antoviaque> question of habits and lowering the barriers everywhere on the way 2011-03-20 14:08:11+0000 <antoviaque> (sorry it's taking time, I haven't been on Farmville in a while and it's spamming me with requests about friends ;p) 2011-03-20 14:09:01+0000 <antoviaque> I've added Agnes as a friend, you should see the invite on Facebook 2011-03-20 14:09:33+0000 <antoviaque> trying on farmville.com now 2011-03-20 14:10:31+0000 <antoviaque> request sent 2011-03-20 14:12:59+0000 <antoviaque> sent you a gift request too : ) 2011-03-20 14:14:21+0000 <dachary> I agreed 2011-03-20 14:14:37+0000 <dachary> and then the browser went into a loop (cityville) 2011-03-20 14:14:48+0000 <dachary> redirect from a url that redirects to another 2011-03-20 14:15:00+0000 <dachary> I restarted the browser 2011-03-20 14:15:18+0000 <dachary> went to farmville which shows an empty screen (firefox macosx) 2011-03-20 14:15:24+0000 <antoviaque> huhu 2011-03-20 14:15:31+0000 <dachary> trying with safari 2011-03-20 14:16:02+0000 <antoviaque> I sometimes get issues, especially when Facebook or the app updates permissions 2011-03-20 14:16:21+0000 <antoviaque> They change their API all the time and it creates glitches 2011-03-20 14:17:47+0000 <antoviaque> But this part which is technically hairy seem unnoticed by most users (Cityvill has currently 90M+ active players during the month...) 2011-03-20 14:17:51+0000 <antoviaque> strange uh? : ) 2011-03-20 14:21:38+0000 * antoviaque just noticed someone wished him an happy marriage one year ago by planting a sign in his farmville crop : ) 2011-03-20 14:22:00+0000 <antoviaque> Crazy people ;p 2011-03-20 14:37:40+0000 <dachary> bon 2011-03-20 14:38:00+0000 <antoviaque> : ) 2011-03-20 14:38:04+0000 <dachary> ahum 2011-03-20 14:38:23+0000 <dachary> This site makes me sick ;-) 2011-03-20 14:38:33+0000 <antoviaque> yes, farmville is an horrible game 2011-03-20 14:38:43+0000 <dachary> is it ? 2011-03-20 14:38:52+0000 <dachary> cityville is better ? 2011-03-20 14:39:13+0000 <antoviaque> well,personally I find it boring, but I can't ignore the fact that so many people play it 2011-03-20 14:39:20+0000 <dachary> ok 2011-03-20 14:39:34+0000 <antoviaque> cityville is a bit better, mostly because I like SimCity 2011-03-20 14:40:32+0000 <antoviaque> I've been hooked a bit by cafeworld some time ago too 2011-03-20 14:42:15+0000 <antoviaque> but the thing is, to really see how the integration works, one needs to actually use Facebook on a regular basis 2011-03-20 14:42:36+0000 <antoviaque> It's the only way to see it through the eyes of the players, and analyze the mechanisms at play 2011-03-20 14:43:44+0000 <antoviaque> but anyway : ) this doesn't solve our issue :/ 2011-03-20 14:46:12+0000 <dachary> No, it does not. 2011-03-20 14:48:31+0000 <dachary> I won't worry about it though. 2011-03-20 14:50:35+0000 <antoviaque> What about Card Stories? Do you abandon the idea of working on it then? 2011-03-20 14:52:21+0000 <dachary> No, I don't. 2011-03-20 14:52:47+0000 <dachary> I updated my calendar to confirm that I will be working on it 22nd march 2011-03-20 14:52:49+0000 <dachary> http://dachary.org/?page_id=18 2011-03-20 14:53:05+0000 <antoviaque> cool : ) 2011-03-20 14:53:21+0000 <dachary> I will not do it in an opensocial context though 2011-03-20 14:53:38+0000 <dachary> I think I will do it in a way that is friendly to social network integration 2011-03-20 14:54:14+0000 <dachary> I learnt a few traps to avoid in this regard when integrating poker to opensocial last year 2011-03-20 14:54:28+0000 <dachary> the first of which (it was painful) is to not rely on cookies at all 2011-03-20 14:55:15+0000 <dachary> because cookies do not exist in this social network world 2011-03-20 14:55:47+0000 <dachary> the second trap is to make sure the javascript is insensitive to being run in an iframe 2011-03-20 14:58:03+0000 <antoviaque> Yup 2011-03-20 14:59:23+0000 <antoviaque> It's a good basis, that we could extend to support specific social networks 2011-03-20 15:00:17+0000 <antoviaque> Would be interesting to discuss it with Pranjal, who currently works on the FB implementation - maybe he would be happy to halt his dev and just work on extending your implmentation for Facebook 2011-03-20 15:01:53+0000 <dachary> I'm not sure if I should try to setup a draft javascript / webservice site. Or if I should try to implement the gameplay. I think implementing the gameplay would be better. 2011-03-20 15:02:39+0000 <antoviaque> Yep, it's good to start with something that a user can try 2011-03-20 15:03:01+0000 <dachary> re Pranjal: I'm not sure I would want to discuss with him. No disrespect intented ;-) 2011-03-20 15:03:32+0000 <antoviaque> oh really? why? 2011-03-20 15:04:32+0000 <antoviaque> He's a nice chap, he's working on recovering the mess let by the dev from his company who had started and then stopped implementing Card Stories 2011-03-20 15:05:03+0000 <dachary> I'm not sure why. I'm not sure where I'm going yet ;-) 2011-03-20 15:05:29+0000 <dachary> https://code.launchpad.net/hackit : could you link to the current implementation ? I understand it's part of the global repository, isn't it ? 2011-03-20 15:06:14+0000 <antoviaque> I see - don't worry, in any case you're free with your contribution here 2011-03-20 15:06:16+0000 <antoviaque> let me see 2011-03-20 15:06:51+0000 <antoviaque> https://code.launchpad.net/cardstories => lp:~pranjal/cardstories/devel 2011-03-20 15:07:07+0000 <dachary> I like the idea of interacting with you. I'm not sure about interacting with someone else on this topic. 2011-03-20 15:07:19+0000 <dachary> antoviaque: thanks ! 2011-03-20 15:10:53+0000 * dachary following http://trac.fsffrance.org/wiki/CreateNewVm to create the cardstories VM 2011-03-20 15:13:28+0000 * antoviaque adds the URL to his ZTD : ) 2011-03-20 15:15:34+0000 * antoviaque is going to eat lunch (getting hungry at 4pm ;p) 2011-03-20 15:16:00+0000 <dachary> :-) 2011-03-20 15:16:29+0000 <dachary> I assume you won't mind that I create this VM on z2-6 2011-03-20 15:33:19+0000 <antoviaque> of course not : ) 2011-03-20 15:34:26+0000 <antoviaque> Actually you're saving me work, I would have had to install CS this week, and this way it has the added bonus of being in its own VM : ) 2011-03-20 15:34:42+0000 <antoviaque> So thanks! :D 2011-03-20 15:43:25+0000 <dachary> antoviaque: you should be able to ssh [email protected] from any VM assuming the agent is forwarded. Let me know if you have troubles. 2011-03-20 15:51:04+0000 <dachary> install CS ? 2011-03-20 15:51:08+0000 <dachary> cardstories 2011-03-20 15:51:10+0000 <dachary> :_0 2011-03-20 15:51:15+0000 <dachary> not CustomerSupport 2011-03-20 15:51:16+0000 <dachary> ahahah 2011-03-20 15:59:04+0000 <dachary> antoviaque: I browsed the code and it seems the coding part is in files 2011-03-20 15:59:32+0000 <dachary> ./controllers/pages_controller.php 2011-03-20 15:59:32+0000 <dachary> ./controllers/users_controller.php 2011-03-20 16:00:09+0000 <dachary> with the database in 2011-03-20 16:00:11+0000 <dachary> /sql/db_cardstories.sql 2011-03-20 16:00:21+0000 <dachary> the rest of the files are templates 2011-03-20 16:00:28+0000 <dachary> am I missing anything ? 2011-03-20 16:01:34+0000 <dachary> I like the codefire.in domain name 2011-03-20 16:01:57+0000 <dachary> although I'm not sure how confident I would be to work with people setting their code on fire ;-) 2011-03-20 16:06:52+0000 <dachary> unless I'm mistaken the game play is not yet implemented (i.e. voting for cards is but the game resolution is not) 2011-03-20 16:08:51+0000 <dachary> antoviaque: are there CSS integrated static HTML pages somewhere ? If not, are there mockups ? 2011-03-20 16:11:21+0000 <dachary> maybe I could create a webservice that implements the gameplay with a JSON API 2011-03-20 16:13:21+0000 <dachary> it looks like a self contained task that would even be useful to Pranjal and not overlap with what he has. Unless I missed something significant, of course. 2011-03-20 16:24:50+0000 <dachary> bbl 2011-03-20 16:30:25+0000 dachary (dachary) is now online 2011-03-20 16:30:29+0000 <dachary> back 2011-03-20 16:36:58+0000 <antoviaque> (finishing a coffee with Deborah, will have a look right after : ) ) 2011-03-20 16:37:34+0000 * dachary finished browsing http://farsides.com/wiki/Card_Stories_-_Beta1.0_Specifications 2011-03-20 16:38:27+0000 * dachary takes a closer look at the current database 2011-03-20 16:53:53+0000 <antoviaque> back 2011-03-20 16:54:43+0000 <antoviaque> we were watching the pilot of the series The Fringe - seems interesting, if you haven't seen it yet you may like it ;p 2011-03-20 16:55:47+0000 <antoviaque> So let me have a look at the Card Stories codebase - what's the IP of the VM you created? 2011-03-20 16:56:16+0000 <antoviaque> The dev has just resumed and I haven't had a look at it since December, so I don't remember much about the code 2011-03-20 16:56:20+0000 <antoviaque> dachary: 2011-03-20 16:57:09+0000 <dachary> reading 2011-03-20 16:57:29+0000 * dachary running to his nearest movie sharing friend 2011-03-20 16:58:25+0000 <antoviaque> ahaha : ) 2011-03-20 17:03:36+0000 <antoviaque> About the webservice, I'm not sure 2011-03-20 17:03:58+0000 <antoviaque> I see two different ways to go for your contribution on Card Stories 2011-03-20 17:04:06+0000 <dachary> tell me 2011-03-20 17:04:34+0000 <dachary> (meanwhile: do you have a oneliner of less than 60 char describing cardstories ?) 2011-03-20 17:05:33+0000 <antoviaque> The first scenario would be to try to synchronise your and Pranjal's work, but it would likely require close interactions, I'm not sure we could really isolate your respective works 2011-03-20 17:08:04+0000 <antoviaque> The second would be to make them independent, and then I think it would be more interesting to have one one side Pranjal's work (Facebook version) and on the other side yours (standalone version, extensible to other social networks) 2011-03-20 17:09:15+0000 <antoviaque> I fear if we try to do both (isolate your repsective work while trying to make them complementary) that we'll hit road blocks 2011-03-20 17:09:29+0000 <dachary> ok 2011-03-20 17:09:40+0000 <dachary> I agree with you 2011-03-20 17:11:08+0000 <antoviaque> ok - then the choice between those two directions is really yours - you have to be comfortable about it : ) 2011-03-20 17:12:10+0000 <antoviaque> For the description I've tried this exercise, and came up with: "A social game where your goal is to find out a card, based on a sentence made up by one of the players." 2011-03-20 17:12:29+0000 <antoviaque> but that's very short and doesn't do justice to the game 2011-03-20 17:14:39+0000 <dachary> I'm more confortable going my way. 2011-03-20 17:14:59+0000 <antoviaque> I was guessing you would say that ;p 2011-03-20 17:15:26+0000 <dachary> :-) 2011-03-20 17:15:48+0000 <dachary> Your description is good but it's over 60 chars (it's for the debian package short description) 2011-03-20 17:16:01+0000 <antoviaque> ah, ahem... 2011-03-20 17:19:42+0000 <antoviaque> Find out a card using a sentence made up by one of the players? 2011-03-20 17:20:01+0000 <antoviaque> ah, still too long 2011-03-20 17:20:40+0000 <dachary> ahaha 2011-03-20 17:20:43+0000 <dachary> it's tough 2011-03-20 17:21:03+0000 <antoviaque> yes, 60 characters is really limited ;p 2011-03-20 17:21:08+0000 <antoviaque> but it's a very good exercise 2011-03-20 17:21:42+0000 <antoviaque> Find out a card using a sentence made up by another player 2011-03-20 17:21:46+0000 <antoviaque> yey! 2011-03-20 17:21:49+0000 <antoviaque> 58 chars 2011-03-20 17:21:54+0000 <antoviaque> ;p 2011-03-20 17:22:53+0000 <antoviaque> Btw, I think it's actually a good option to do two separate versions 2011-03-20 17:23:18+0000 <antoviaque> It would likely be difficult to twist Pranjal's work into something more generic than Facebook 2011-03-20 17:23:59+0000 <antoviaque> And your standalone version will provide a solid basis 2011-03-20 17:26:07+0000 <dachary> :-) 2011-03-20 17:26:37+0000 <antoviaque> We'll be able to test the social behaviors on Facebook on one side, and on the other side ensure Card Stories' longevity as one of very few good free software games, independently of what happens on the Facebook front 2011-03-20 17:26:39+0000 <dachary> I think you will find the webservice appealing but we can discuss this when it's complete. 2011-03-20 17:27:01+0000 <antoviaque> ok : ) 2011-03-20 17:29:41+0000 <antoviaque> "are there CSS integrated static HTML pages somewhere ? If not, are there mockups ? " => I think Pramendra and Pranjal worked on the CSS/HTML directly in the game, so no for the first question 2011-03-20 17:29:54+0000 <antoviaque> But there are images mockups: 2011-03-20 17:30:18+0000 <antoviaque> http://farsides.com/wiki/Card_Stories_Interface_design 2011-03-20 17:30:53+0000 <antoviaque> It's missing 1-2 pages which haven't been designed yet if I remember correctly though 2011-03-20 17:33:10+0000 <dachary> antoviaque: thanks for the information 2011-03-20 17:33:41+0000 <antoviaque> yw : ) 2011-03-20 17:34:02+0000 <dachary> Creative Commons NC-BY-SA 2.0 FR ? 2011-03-20 17:35:42+0000 <antoviaque> ah, it's true, I forgot about that - we were discussing the non free license for the cards at launch due to the nature of the competition on Facebook 2011-03-20 17:36:14+0000 <antoviaque> But of course if you work on Card Stories standalone the cards would be CC-BY-SA too 2011-03-20 17:38:20+0000 <antoviaque> The reasoning was that on Facebook competitors copy each others in a matter of days, and that they would just take the cards, quickly code a copy of the code to escape AGPL and suck users into their version given the audience leverage they have there 2011-03-20 17:38:56+0000 <dachary> Thanks for reassuring me :-) 2011-03-20 17:39:18+0000 <antoviaque> Ahah, I wouldn't consider proposing you to work with non-free licenses ;p 2011-03-20 17:43:00+0000 <antoviaque> And actually the license on the cards would have stayed NC only until we would have reached critical mass - the goal was to avoid having the facebook fray locking the game, not to prevent free use 2011-03-20 17:47:51+0000 <antoviaque> Actually you may know of another way to solve the issue - is it possible to license the cards in such a way that using them would mean that the game code using them would need to be free software too? 2011-03-20 17:48:09+0000 <dachary> bbl 2011-03-20 17:48:21+0000 <dachary> Copyright (C) 2011 Xavier Antoviaque <[email protected]> (gameplay and specifications) 2011-03-20 17:48:22+0000 <dachary> Copyright (C) 2011 tartarugafeliz <[email protected]> (artwork) 2011-03-20 17:48:22+0000 <dachary> Copyright (C) 2011 Loic Dachary <[email protected]> (software) 2011-03-20 17:48:27+0000 <dachary> is this corect ? 2011-03-20 17:49:00+0000 <antoviaque> Yep, with adding David Blanchard <[email protected]> for the gameplay & specifications 2011-03-20 17:49:15+0000 <dachary> cards => I don't know actually 2011-03-20 17:49:51+0000 <antoviaque> he contributed too 2011-03-20 17:50:09+0000 <antoviaque> and wrote most of the final specs document 2011-03-20 18:08:37+0000 <antoviaque> There is the LAL which seems to take care of this case: 2011-03-20 18:08:42+0000 <antoviaque> "Incorporating this work into a larger work that is not subject to the Free Art License shall not challenge the rights granted by this license. 2011-03-20 18:08:42+0000 <antoviaque> If the work can no longer be accessed apart from the larger work in which it is incorporated, then incorporation shall only be allowed under the condition that the larger work is subject either to the Free Art License or a compatible license. " 2011-03-20 18:09:31+0000 <antoviaque> But it seems incompatible with the GPL: "This is a free and copyleft license meant for artistic works. It permits commercial distribution, but any larger work including the copylefted work must be free. Please don't use it for software or documentation, since it is incompatible with the GNU GPL and with the GNU FDL." (from fsf.org) 2011-03-20 18:16:04+0000 <antoviaque> Well, maybe I worry for nothing... _______________________________________________ Farsides mailing list - [email protected] Wiki: http://farsides.com/ List: http://farsides.com/ml/ Forum: http://farsides.com/forum/ Ideas: http://farsides.com/ideas/ Chat: http://farsides.com/chat/
