The large Schelle theorbo is not, in fact that large in terms of string length (NB original bridge position is higher than at present and gives an original string length of only 85/86cm). Because it has a neck for 8 frets (rather than the 9 or 10 some people go for these days) it does, however, still have a big body as found on many large continuo theorboes and in iconography. The key issue is at what pitch the instrument would have played. Fortunately, we don't need to go into possible Dresden pitches (Kammerton - high or low, chor ton, low french ton, etc) since we can simply compare the maximum string stress (ie breaking stress) of the contemporary Dm lute. So if we take a common 18thC Dm lute of string length 72cm with top course at f', this very conveniently gives the same string stress as an 86cm instrument with top course at d'. In short, no need to put down an octave. Possibly this would involved slightly more frequent breakages than would be experienced on a normal tuned large continuo theorbo in A (say, string length 94cm, top course at b) but only by just over a semitone's worth (ie the same string stress as d' at 86 equates to a pitch of c# at 96). MH Rob <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi Benjamin. Good to see you contributing to this discussion. I was interested in your comments in your article regarding Klaus Jackobsen's thought that the very large Schelle theorbo might have had the first two strings displaced because of its long string length. Is this the tuning you use on your copy of the Schelle? It seems a reasonable supposition to me, considering that in Dm tuning, there is no point in lowering a string by an octave (as with the Italian model) because that pitch is already an open string.
And do you use single or double strings? Rob www.rmguitar.info -----Original Message----- From: Benjamin Narvey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 26 November 2007 10:59 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Narvey article online/Dm continuo in Italy Hi Rob, Regarding the point of d-minor continuo in Italy, there is in fact other documentation of its use apart from that of Weiss. There is a source *by an Italian*, the theorist and composer Pier Francesco Valentini (1586-1654), who discusses at some length d-minor continuo playing in his *Il leuto anatomizzato ... nelle quale si dimostrano 12 diversi ordini di sonare et intervolare trasportato nel leuto,* a very early source about d-minor continuo written in 1642, only a few years after the tuning came out in France itself. I didn't know about this source until after my article went to print, and this could have added a lot of juicy nuance. This source, written in Italian by an Italian for Italians, presumably attests to a school of d-minor playing there. Also, if this was already happening in 1642, how had this grown by Weiss's time a century later? This subject needs further exploration.... Does anyone on this list know anything more about this? BN On the other hand, I have not managed to talk myself into definit > ely > choosing the German tuning on my 86cms theorbo, but I have the possibility > > of experimenting. And while it is OK to use an Italian instrument for > German > baroque music (it was definitely used, as Tim Burris has pointed out), it > is > less plausible using a German instrument on anything other than German > music. Benjamin argues that Weiss's presence in Italy indicates that at > least one player was using dm tuning, however it is not certain that Weiss > had developed his 'sans chanterelle' tuning whilst there. If not, what was > > Weiss playing when sitting in with Scarlatti's orchestral band? Had the > swan-necked so-called theorbo come into existence during Weiss's Italian > trip, 1710-14? Seems a bit early to me. I'm sure someone reading this will > > know when swans flew in to the scene? So, if Weiss still just had his > lute, > was he playing continuo at all, and if he was, did he use an Italian-tuned > instrument? And did the problems he encountered lead to his development of > > the German Continuo Theorbo when he got back to Germany? Or did he create > it > when in Rome? > > So, there are a lot of questions, and, as I say, I have not yet convinced > myself one way or another. But one thought keeps bugging me: Weiss was by > far the greatest composer for the baroque lute, and we know that he spent > a > lot of his time as a continuo player. We also know the tuning he used. > Baron > states that it is the common tuning of theorboes in Germany. So how many > of > us are actually doing it? Probably fewer than half a dozen... Almost like > playing Dowland on guitars... > > www.rmguitar.info > > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > -- Benjamin Narvey Luthiste: http://www.luthiste.com -- --------------------------------- Yahoo! Answers - Get better answers from someone who knows. Tryit now. --
