In perfect agreement with Allan in this particular, let me add
a few things more:
a) The plants should give back something to the soil. Its root
exudate as a minimum;
b) Roots have a role to perform in the soil, like opening it up
for air and water to drain in;
c) micro life has a dynamic relation with the plants under the
soil;
d) We don't know what kind of energies go up and down the plants;
e) Some plants -- like certain well-known leguminosae -- have a
very important role of extracting nitrogen from the air and
bringing it into the soil (with the help of some bacteria)
This list could go on and on. When we do hydroponics we KNOW
we are impeding several things to take place. Probability is
that there are many other things we don't know...
Let commercial growers who want more and more money in
less and less time use hydroponics. Those of us who see the
planet as Gaia should avoid it.
- fernando
Allan Balliett wrote:
>
> Chris - I'm not interested in working with growing systems in which
> humans introduce the "parts" they think should be in such a system,
> I'm interested in working with growing systems that optimize the
> natural system ("heal the Earth"). You know: the plant between the
> earth and sun, with the plants roots firmly in the soil.
>
> A basic contention of this 'piety' is that, as far as producing
> appropriate food for humans is concerned (the goal of any real
> growing system), we do not yet know of either all the 'elements'
> healthy living farm soil contains nor of what it receives from
> biological relationships or cosmological 'forces.' Furthermore, the
> hydroponic systems commonly (but not necessarily) ignore the value of
> natural light: not just sunlight, but moonlight, planetlight, and
> starlight in producing food truly appropriate for humans.
>
> So, sure, work with hydroponics if you want to. Use the preps if you
> want to. God knows they can be used anywhere: I have friends who
> spray them regularly around public buildings in the hope of
> introducing real life there. I understand that hydroponics may have
> appropriate applications at certain times and certain places, but
> let's keep in mind that there are hundreds of people who've joined
> this list to learn about biodynamics, which is commonly seen as
> holistic, integrating and natural.
>
> Thanks -Allan
>
> >Yeah, Allan, that was basically my reaction to your
> >post, too, thought I didn't have much time to get into
> >it. Watch out for the lure of BD piety. Hydroponics
> >does not have to mean chemicals, it means you remove
> >the soil physics, which are often limiting to the
> >system, or contaminated.
> >
> >Here is one thing to chew on:
> >Any compost teas will be loaded with humic colloids,
> >basically timy pieces of soil humus.
> >
> >So how would there be no earth element, no life ether,
> >no soil? All those arguments become bullshit quickly.
> > Add some azomite or other clay and you have colloidal
> >mineral earth, which will associate with the humic
> >colloids and you have the basis of dispersed soil
> >solutions. There will be oodles of microorganisms,
> >and there can be plenty of "forces", if you add them.
> >
> >I have many ideas on these lines and have been holding
> >them until I can work on them.
> >
> >I am sure Willis will come up with some good things.
> >The Storchman would, too, if he applied to it.
> >
> >Chris
> >
> >
> >--- Allan Balliett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> Dear Allan,
> >>
> >> You said:
> >>
> >> >Bob - Biodynamics is a system. Unlike
> >> factory-oriented approaches,
> >> >biodynamics cannot be 'parted out,' so, if you want
> >> to use a
> >> >biodynamic element as a "tool" in your hydroponics
> >> operation, well,
> >> >you still ain't doing biodynamics and there ain't
> >> any real reason to
> >> >discuss what it is that you are doing on this list.
> >> >
> >> >Further more, I should hasten to add, many people
> >> would argue that
> >> >biodynamics begins with the soil, so, you probably
> >> aren't ever going
> >> >to be doing biodynamics in your hydroponics
> >> operation and there ain't
> >> >a lot of reason to discuss what it is that you are
> >> doing on this list.
> >> >
> >> >OK?
> >> >
> >> >Thanks
> >>
> >> -Allan Balliett
> >> moderator
> >> BD Now!
> >>
> >> Well, I couldn't disagree with you more and I would
> >> very much
> >> appreciate it if you would send Bob's email address
> >> to me so we could
> >> discuss this.
> >>
> >> Fundamentally, what Steiner was teaching is in the
> >> title for his
> >> lectures, to wit: "Foundations for the Spiritual
> >> Renewal of
> >> Agriculture." The "tools" as you describe them, are
> >> essential for
> >> the working of the approach but they are not the
> >> "system". I have
> >> studied hydroponics extensively and I am convinced
> >> that a Steiner
> >> approach to it would not only bring more spiritual
> >> energy to the
> >> plants grown, but sweeter, tastier, longer lasting
> >> vegetables also
> >> that are highly nutritious both physically and
> >> metaphysically.
> >>
> >> This spring, my company is going to start research
> >> on hydroponics
> >> using our field sprays and other Steiner derived
> > > techniques. I will
> >> not consider, even for a millisecond, that this
> >> could be called
> >> "biodynamic". And to this comment I must add,
> >> "biodynamics" today
> >> has little relationship to what Steiner taught
> >> anyway. It is far too
> >> limiting and limited as it is practiced and
> >> promulgated by the
> >> self-appointed leaders and organizations. So to
> >> shoehorn the limited
> >> concept of "biodynamics" into hydroponics is an act,
> >> I think, that is
> >> both foolhardy and self-limiting in and of itself.
> >>
> >> Also, as practiced today, "biodynamics" is not a
> >> system. It is a
> >> group of practices cobbled together by, in many
> >> cases, well meaning
> >> people who, for the most part, fail to grasp the
> >> most basic concepts
> >> of this approach to farming, which is, again, the
> >> reintroduction of
> >> SPIRITUAL ENERGY into our food which is lost due to
> >> the practices
> >> that are common to what is now called "conventional
> >> agriculture". To
> >> quote RS himself, "Nutrition as it is today [1924]
> >> does not supply
> >> the strength necessary for manifesting the spirit in
> >> physical life.
> >> A bridge can no longer be built from thinking to
> >> will and action.
> >> Food plants no longer contain the forces people need
> >> for this."
> >>
> >> To put a finer point on this, food today lacks
> >> spiritual nutrition.
> >> Steiner's techniques bring this back. Use his
> >> techniques and the
> >> spiritual energy will return. The emphasis is on
> >> SPIRITUAL. Not
> >> the techniques or "system".
> >>
> >> It is readily possible and predictable that this
> >> spiritual energy
> >> which energizes the soul toward enlightenment can
> >> and will be
> >> "injected" (if you will) into hydroponically grown
> >> food just as
> >> easily as we now do it with our food sprays into a
> >> plate of food on
> >> the table, ready to eat. It happens instantly.
> >>
> >> One of the many troubles with "biodynamic" thinking
> >> is the sort of
> >> self-limiting comments such as you made and I have
> >> proven, beyond any
> >> doubt at all, don't apply IF one takes a wider view
> >> of just exactly
> >> what RS was trying to convey and concentrates on the
> >> goal instead of
> >> the means.
> >>
> >> Please don't take this criticism personally. I am
> >> directing my
> >> comments only at your comments. (I love you, man.)
> >> But you must not
> >> fall into the trap so many others fall into.
> >>
> >> Again, would you please forward Bob's email address
> >> to me. I would
> >> really like to discuss this with him.
> >>
> >> Sincerely Yours,
> >>
> >> Greg Willis
> >>
> >> (You may place this on bdnow if you wish.)
> >>
> >
> >
> >__________________________________________________
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--
REDUZIR, REUSAR, RECICLAR -- Dever de todos, amor aos que virão
REDUCE, REUSE, RECYCLE -- Everybody's duty, love to those who are
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