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You can reach the person managing the list at beginners-ow...@haskell.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Beginners digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Happstack dependency problems (Antoine Latter) 2. Re: happstack versus yesod (Michael Snoyman) 3. Re: happstack versus yesod (Ramy Abdel-Azim) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2011 13:50:47 -0500 From: Antoine Latter <aslat...@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Haskell-beginners] Happstack dependency problems To: Tom Murphy <amin...@gmail.com> Cc: beginners@haskell.org, ha...@googlegroups.com Message-ID: <banlktin+5nyohffaslthexzzbpnzoml...@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Sending to the Happstack mailing list, in case they have seen it before. On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 1:25 PM, Tom Murphy <amin...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi all, > I'm having build troubles with Happstack. I'll let the error message speak > for itself: > " > $ export PATH=~/.cabal/bin:$PATH > $ cabal update > $ cabal install happstack > Resolving dependencies... > cabal: cannot configure unix-2.4.2.0. It requires base >=4.2 && <4.4 > For the dependency on base >=4.2 && <4.4 there are these packages: > base-4.2.0.0, base-4.2.0.1, base-4.2.0.2, base-4.3.0.0 and base-4.3.1.0. > However none of them are available. > base-4.2.0.0 was excluded because of the top level dependency base -any > base-4.2.0.1 was excluded because of the top level dependency base -any > base-4.2.0.2 was excluded because of the top level dependency base -any > base-4.3.0.0 was excluded because of the top level dependency base -any > base-4.3.1.0 was excluded because of the top level dependency base -any > " > Thank you for any help! > Tom > _______________________________________________ > Beginners mailing list > Beginners@haskell.org > http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners > > ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2011 21:59:37 +0300 From: Michael Snoyman <mich...@snoyman.com> Subject: Re: [Haskell-beginners] happstack versus yesod To: Ramy Abdel-Azim <ramy.abdela...@gmail.com> Cc: beginners@haskell.org, web-devel <web-de...@haskell.org> Message-ID: <banlktinef6-nwucyrx9spsm8t8bem+n...@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I'm not sure where you got that implication from. Happstack is a good framework, and using it will definitely help you learn Haskell. But the same is true of Yesod or Snap. I guess you might say that if your goal is to learn Haskell, and not to create websites, then you shouldn't be using a framework at all, and should be writing code that reads/sends ByteStrings over sockets. You'll definitely learn more Haskell that way... Michael On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 9:50 PM, Ramy Abdel-Azim <ramy.abdela...@gmail.com>wrote: > well, i'll add my $.02 here (hopefully without throwing fuel on the fire) > and say that - without knowing much about either, I asked the question for > pete's sake! - is that from what you're saying, if I'dlike to use one of > these frameworks to not only build my website but to also solidify what > knowledge of haskell i've acquired, I should go with Happstack. > > > On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 2:32 PM, Michael Snoyman <mich...@snoyman.com>wrote: > >> This probably isn't the right forum for expressing this thought, but here >> goes anyway: >> >> What exactly is the freedom that Yesod takes away from you? I know this >> idea gets passed around a lot: Yesod isn't "really" Haskell, Yesod is its >> own language, etc. But all of that is really just talking about some sugar >> that Yesod puts in place for you: under the surface, it's just functions, >> data types and type classes. You can go ahead and write a complete Yesod >> application without using Template Haskell of QuasiQuotation. >> >> So what's the restriction that Yesod has that Happstack/Snap don't? Yesod >> requires you to provide some datatypes. That's it. What's the purpose of the >> datatypes? Mostly, it's about type-safe URLs. I'm not exactly sure why the >> term "restriction" or "freedom" even applies here: Yesod has a *feature* >> that Happstack/Snap do not include out of the box. >> >> Let me phrase this in a different way: "But I don't like Haskell, because >> the idea of Python in more interesting for me. Python gives you some >> freedom." I really do see this as the same argument. You can go ahead and >> right some code without static type checking in Python, and you might even >> write it faster than you would have in Haskell. But go ahead and start >> making changes, and unless you have some very good unit tests, you're in for >> a world of hurt. In Haskell, often times the compiler will save you from >> yourself. >> >> The same is true in Yesod. I've refactored incredibly large codebases, >> with hundreds of different resource patterns, and *never* had to worry about >> 404s. Maybe some people consider that giving up freedom. I consider it >> giving up the freedom to shoot yourself in the foot. >> >> Oh, and if you are absolutely dependent on the idea of getting rid of this >> data-type requirements, and want all the freedom of dynamic routes, you can >> try out a 44 line module[1] that I mentioned recently[2]. >> >> OK, enough of this rant. I'm not trying to attack you, I'm just tired of >> this notion that Yesod is a ball-and-chain around your ankles. People can >> have legitimate reasons to prefer Happstack or Snap to Yesod, I've never >> claimed that it was a perfect framework for everyone. I just don't think >> this is one of those legitimate reasons. >> >> Michael >> >> [1] https://gist.github.com/884802 >> <https://gist.github.com/884802>[2] >> http://osdir.com/ml/general/2011-04/msg02160.html >> >> >> On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 8:35 PM, Alexey G <kreed...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Hello. It's very interesting theme for me and I want to express my >>> opinion. >>> Yesod - very fast web-framework( >>> http://www.yesodweb.com/blog/preliminary-warp-cross-language-benchmarks >>> ). >>> But I don't like Yesod, because idea of Happstack more interesting for >>> me. Happstack gives to you some freedom. >>> >>> I trying to use Snap Framework now. And it's very good for me. Try it >>> http://snapframework.com/! >>> >>> Sorry for my english. >>> >>> 2011/4/5 Ramy Abdel-Azim <ramy.abdela...@gmail.com> >>> >>>> I already posted about this a little bit but i think i should let the >>>> old thread get back to it's regularly scheduled conversaion. on to my >>>> question: >>>> >>>> So I know there are a million easier ways to createa blog (wordpress, >>>> django, drupal, etc. etc.) but which would you recommend I use to build a >>>> beginner website that is simliar to a blog: happstack or yesod? >>>> _Ramy >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Beginners mailing list >>>> Beginners@haskell.org >>>> http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Beginners mailing list >>> Beginners@haskell.org >>> http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Beginners mailing list >> Beginners@haskell.org >> http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://www.haskell.org/pipermail/beginners/attachments/20110405/3f11a114/attachment-0001.htm> ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2011 15:02:03 -0400 From: Ramy Abdel-Azim <ramy.abdela...@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Haskell-beginners] happstack versus yesod To: Michael Snoyman <mich...@snoyman.com> Cc: beginners@haskell.org, web-devel <web-de...@haskell.org> Message-ID: <BANLkTi=gtuqd2e-nd4vcy_16afywehp...@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" well, thanks for your opinions anyway, Michael. On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 2:59 PM, Michael Snoyman <mich...@snoyman.com> wrote: > I'm not sure where you got that implication from. Happstack is a good > framework, and using it will definitely help you learn Haskell. But the same > is true of Yesod or Snap. I guess you might say that if your goal is to > learn Haskell, and not to create websites, then you shouldn't be using a > framework at all, and should be writing code that reads/sends ByteStrings > over sockets. You'll definitely learn more Haskell that way... > > Michael > > > On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 9:50 PM, Ramy Abdel-Azim > <ramy.abdela...@gmail.com>wrote: > >> well, i'll add my $.02 here (hopefully without throwing fuel on the fire) >> and say that - without knowing much about either, I asked the question for >> pete's sake! - is that from what you're saying, if I'dlike to use one of >> these frameworks to not only build my website but to also solidify what >> knowledge of haskell i've acquired, I should go with Happstack. >> >> >> On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 2:32 PM, Michael Snoyman <mich...@snoyman.com>wrote: >> >>> This probably isn't the right forum for expressing this thought, but here >>> goes anyway: >>> >>> What exactly is the freedom that Yesod takes away from you? I know this >>> idea gets passed around a lot: Yesod isn't "really" Haskell, Yesod is its >>> own language, etc. But all of that is really just talking about some sugar >>> that Yesod puts in place for you: under the surface, it's just functions, >>> data types and type classes. You can go ahead and write a complete Yesod >>> application without using Template Haskell of QuasiQuotation. >>> >>> So what's the restriction that Yesod has that Happstack/Snap don't? Yesod >>> requires you to provide some datatypes. That's it. What's the purpose of the >>> datatypes? Mostly, it's about type-safe URLs. I'm not exactly sure why the >>> term "restriction" or "freedom" even applies here: Yesod has a *feature* >>> that Happstack/Snap do not include out of the box. >>> >>> Let me phrase this in a different way: "But I don't like Haskell, because >>> the idea of Python in more interesting for me. Python gives you some >>> freedom." I really do see this as the same argument. You can go ahead and >>> right some code without static type checking in Python, and you might even >>> write it faster than you would have in Haskell. But go ahead and start >>> making changes, and unless you have some very good unit tests, you're in for >>> a world of hurt. In Haskell, often times the compiler will save you from >>> yourself. >>> >>> The same is true in Yesod. I've refactored incredibly large codebases, >>> with hundreds of different resource patterns, and *never* had to worry about >>> 404s. Maybe some people consider that giving up freedom. I consider it >>> giving up the freedom to shoot yourself in the foot. >>> >>> Oh, and if you are absolutely dependent on the idea of getting rid of >>> this data-type requirements, and want all the freedom of dynamic routes, you >>> can try out a 44 line module[1] that I mentioned recently[2]. >>> >>> OK, enough of this rant. I'm not trying to attack you, I'm just tired of >>> this notion that Yesod is a ball-and-chain around your ankles. People can >>> have legitimate reasons to prefer Happstack or Snap to Yesod, I've never >>> claimed that it was a perfect framework for everyone. I just don't think >>> this is one of those legitimate reasons. >>> >>> Michael >>> >>> [1] https://gist.github.com/884802 >>> <https://gist.github.com/884802>[2] >>> http://osdir.com/ml/general/2011-04/msg02160.html >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 8:35 PM, Alexey G <kreed...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Hello. It's very interesting theme for me and I want to express my >>>> opinion. >>>> Yesod - very fast web-framework( >>>> http://www.yesodweb.com/blog/preliminary-warp-cross-language-benchmarks >>>> ). >>>> But I don't like Yesod, because idea of Happstack more interesting for >>>> me. Happstack gives to you some freedom. >>>> >>>> I trying to use Snap Framework now. And it's very good for me. Try it >>>> http://snapframework.com/! >>>> >>>> Sorry for my english. >>>> >>>> 2011/4/5 Ramy Abdel-Azim <ramy.abdela...@gmail.com> >>>> >>>>> I already posted about this a little bit but i think i should let the >>>>> old thread get back to it's regularly scheduled conversaion. on to my >>>>> question: >>>>> >>>>> So I know there are a million easier ways to createa blog (wordpress, >>>>> django, drupal, etc. etc.) but which would you recommend I use to build a >>>>> beginner website that is simliar to a blog: happstack or yesod? >>>>> _Ramy >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Beginners mailing list >>>>> Beginners@haskell.org >>>>> http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Beginners mailing list >>>> Beginners@haskell.org >>>> http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Beginners mailing list >>> Beginners@haskell.org >>> http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners >>> >>> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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