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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Training tasks (Nikita Beloglazov)
2. Re: cmath Install troubles (Tom Murphy)
3. Re: Training tasks (umptious)
4. Re: cmath Install troubles (Brandon Allbery)
5. Re: cmath Install troubles (Tom Murphy)
6. Re: cmath Install troubles (Brandon Allbery)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 23:08:32 +0300
From: Nikita Beloglazov <nik...@taste-o-code.com>
Subject: Re: [Haskell-beginners] Training tasks
To: Tom Murphy <amin...@gmail.com>
Cc: beginners@haskell.org
Message-ID:
<cajdg_pvciq9dnbveyvyofqv9v6hphopezgg2og_-_om-yp4...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 8:44 PM, Tom Murphy <amin...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think that the idea is less to have a teaching tool, and more
> to have a way to "shop around" for languages, by seeing what each
> language is very good at.
>
Yes, Tom is right. Idea is to show what each language good for, to excite
about it. It may be hard to achieve by solving tasks but I want to try.
When user solves task he is be able to see author's solution. This way he
can learn other (may be more beautiful) way to solve the task.
Nikita
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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 16:18:48 -0400
From: Tom Murphy <amin...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Haskell-beginners] cmath Install troubles
To: Brandon Allbery <allber...@gmail.com>
Cc: beginners <beginners@haskell.org>
Message-ID:
<CAO9Q0tVSuNz=+Rx=ss0VFu5z5kbpP=ytgvuxghnvda-5zlh...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
I've got some free time again so I'm returning to this problem.
2 important facts:
- A test C program, using one of the "undefined" functions (isnan)
compiles with GCC and runs
- I went in by hand and temporarily replaced each version of math.h on
my computer with a version that has the necessary functions defined.
Cabal-install still failed with the same error.
This makes it seem like cabal doesn't have access to _any_ math.h
file, but if this were the case, wouldn't I get many more
undefined-function errors than I do?
Thanks for the help,
Tom
On 1/20/12, Brandon Allbery <allber...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 15:26, Tom Murphy <amin...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 1/19/12, Brandon Allbery <allber...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 16:37, Antoine Latter <aslat...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >> On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 3:24 PM, Tom Murphy <amin...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > Is it possible that I have a version of math.h which doesn't have
>> >> > these definitions ("gamma," "finite," "isinf," etc.) in it?
>> >>
>> >> That's a good guess based on the error messages - or math.h isn't in
>> >> whatever paths we're looking in.
>>
>> If math.h wasn't in the paths at all, wouldn't I get an error about
>> _every_ function being undefined?
>>
>
> The problem isn't math.h; these are link errors, so it's
> /usr/lib/libm.dylib that is somehow wrong. I can't help with this too much
> as I'm on Lion so it's a symlink to libSystem.dylib (and if that's messed
> up, you don't even *boot* much less compile stuff).
>
> --
> brandon s allbery allber...@gmail.com
> wandering unix systems administrator (available) (412) 475-9364 vm/sms
>
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 22:21:01 +0100
From: umptious <umpti...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Haskell-beginners] Training tasks
To: beginners@haskell.org
Message-ID:
<cae20bntmqmgai3qbgv_6cj11zjk4qs-apheoesrtex_+58a...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
On 18 April 2012 21:08, Nikita Beloglazov <nik...@taste-o-code.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 8:44 PM, Tom Murphy <amin...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I think that the idea is less to have a teaching tool, and more
>> to have a way to "shop around" for languages, by seeing what each
>> language is very good at.
>>
>
> Yes, Tom is right. Idea is to show what each language good for, to excite
> about it.
>
Yes, I get that. It's a bad idea. Showing atypical "promotional" cases for
each language encourages faddishness and silver bullet cults; it's
irresponsible and unprofessional. If you're shopping around for a language
then nothing is worse than selected sweet spot cases. Unless they are a
fair-ish benchmark for a language that excels in a clear area, like R, APL
and Awk and you're looking for a glorified DSL.
I'd say that its better to have the same tasks for each language if you're
evaluating a general purpose tool. Obvious ones would be, from simple to
complex:
- Some of the unix command line utilities like wc (some of these might be
single liners)
- OXO, Caesar cipher (10 lines or so)
- The Markov chain program from the Practice Of Programming
- Life
- A simple spheres only ray tracer like the one in Graham's Lisp book
- A simple calculator program like the one in Hutton
- The recursive 2D shape program I've mentioned in other posts today
- A version of the classic Traveller/Elite trading system - a really nice
little toy business rules system that can be code either minimally or to
show off the funkier features of a language to get more flexibility and
more interesting pricing rules. Minimal version would be a few tens of
lines and the config file declaring items.
If you want to see a language comparison done responsibly, look at
Kernighan and Pike's "Practice Of Programming."
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Message: 4
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 18:38:17 -0400
From: Brandon Allbery <allber...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Haskell-beginners] cmath Install troubles
To: Tom Murphy <amin...@gmail.com>
Cc: beginners <beginners@haskell.org>
Message-ID:
<CAKFCL4UvZkicGjQk=dpxy9vkk-tm0twuznwpcez-dtcdhmg...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 16:18, Tom Murphy <amin...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 2 important facts:
> - A test C program, using one of the "undefined" functions (isnan)
> compiles with GCC and runs
> - I went in by hand and temporarily replaced each version of math.h on
> my computer with a version that has the necessary functions defined.
> Cabal-install still failed with the same error.
>
> This makes it seem like cabal doesn't have access to _any_ math.h
> file, but if this were the case, wouldn't I get many more
> undefined-function errors than I do?
>
Unless you are using an older ghc with -fvia-C, <math.h> is not used or
useful. The modern -fasm codegen doesn't know what to do with C-level
declarations. If your <math.h> is using macros to define gamma as
something else, you will need to find that something else or use a wrapper
library.
I note that OS X doesn't have a gamma(). There are lgamma() and tgamma()
and variations thereon. (and no related macros in <math.h>, confirming
that it is not related.)
--
brandon s allbery allber...@gmail.com
wandering unix systems administrator (available) (412) 475-9364 vm/sms
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Message: 5
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 21:39:28 -0400
From: Tom Murphy <amin...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Haskell-beginners] cmath Install troubles
To: Brandon Allbery <allber...@gmail.com>
Cc: beginners <beginners@haskell.org>
Message-ID:
<cao9q0tvzalxce_jcmv7ckcpj8qci+ckzq9pdwtdexkap_mr...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
On 4/18/12, Brandon Allbery <allber...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 16:18, Tom Murphy <amin...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> 2 important facts:
>> - A test C program, using one of the "undefined" functions (isnan)
>> compiles with GCC and runs
>> - I went in by hand and temporarily replaced each version of math.h on
>> my computer with a version that has the necessary functions defined.
>> Cabal-install still failed with the same error.
>>
>> This makes it seem like cabal doesn't have access to _any_ math.h
>> file, but if this were the case, wouldn't I get many more
>> undefined-function errors than I do?
>>
>
> Unless you are using an older ghc with -fvia-C,
[...]
I have 7.0.4.
[...]
> <math.h> is not used or
> useful. The modern -fasm codegen doesn't know what to do with C-level
> declarations. If your <math.h> is using macros to define gamma as
> something else, you will need to find that something else or use a wrapper
> library.
Hmm, that's true...
I don't really understand how .hsc files are compiled, but isn't the
"#include <math.h>" in cmath done in the very standard FFI style?
>
> I note that OS X doesn't have a gamma(). There are lgamma() and tgamma()
> and variations thereon. (and no related macros in <math.h>, confirming
> that it is not related.)
>
What do you mean by OS X not having them? On my system (10.6), gamma()
is defined (at least in math.h (well, at least the ones in
/usr/include/architecture/i386/ and
/Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.6.sdk/usr/include/architecture/i386/))
Thanks for your help.
Tom
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 01:31:11 -0400
From: Brandon Allbery <allber...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Haskell-beginners] cmath Install troubles
To: Tom Murphy <amin...@gmail.com>
Cc: beginners <beginners@haskell.org>
Message-ID:
<CAKFCL4UmXS8u3qPUiQ=ijwngpmgjwthhq9itjsxzrdnco0y...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 21:39, Tom Murphy <amin...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 4/18/12, Brandon Allbery <allber...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 16:18, Tom Murphy <amin...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> This makes it seem like cabal doesn't have access to _any_ math.h
> >> file, but if this were the case, wouldn't I get many more
> >> undefined-function errors than I do?
> >
> > Unless you are using an older ghc with -fvia-C,
> [...]
> I have 7.0.4.
>
7.0.4 has -fasm by default, but you can force -fvia-C still. With -fasm,
the include files are not used afaik; since direct assembly code is created
and not C code, a C include file is not useful.
> Hmm, that's true...
> I don't really understand how .hsc files are compiled, but isn't the
> "#include <math.h>" in cmath done in the very standard FFI style?
>
If warnings are on, I think that elicits a "this is not used any more"
warning with -fasm.
> I note that OS X doesn't have a gamma(). There are lgamma() and tgamma()
> > and variations thereon. (and no related macros in <math.h>, confirming
> > that it is not related.)
>
> What do you mean by OS X not having them? On my system (10.6), gamma()
>
I'm on 10.7, and I have no gamma().
I just checked the 10.6 SDK includes; it has
extern double gamma ( double ); /* Legacy API: please use C99 tgamma()
instead. */
so apparently it was deprecated and is now removed.
--
brandon s allbery allber...@gmail.com
wandering unix systems administrator (available) (412) 475-9364 vm/sms
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