Le jeu 30/10/2003 à 23:59, Dan Muey a écrit : > Here's a thought I'd like to get opinions on... > ---Who cares you say, it's not Perl's job to make it look nice? > Right but it's not PHP's job either and some of them look very nice.
But PHP, I think, integrates html code a better way. You can just type your html code and then say <?php code ?> and there you put the varying code. This is a good solution when you want to separate content and presentation. I don't know but you'll tell me... does that exist in perl. As far as I know, you still have to do a perl script and then put print <<"EOF"; code EOF to get some html easily. Isn't that ugly? (beeeeeeh! :-D). > --OK again, who cares what does it matter? > It matters because people will begin look at PHP as a "pretty" language and Perl as > an "Ugly" > Language suitable only for scary nerd in the dark work while they use PHP for what > the public > sees. And then shy away from Perl. I use both Perl and PHP. None of them seems ugly to me. I think the learning curve is a little nicer with PHP. PHP is more comfortable when you don't know what you're doing :-p because it offers less dangerous possibilities like file system access and because having a look at php.net and the user's comments there generally gets you immediately the kind of answer you would like to have. To find any answer about some common matter in Perl, you have to crawl the web. Or ask here (which is the simplest way I have found, but sometimes nobody can answer and then...). -- But there are some things that you might need to know about PHP which are not on their website! (surely there is!?) Well yes, but then you just find your way alone... The thing is PHP is more restricted, so for developing web scripts you don't have to bother about what module is needed. 99% of the times it is there. When I have something really complex to do (like parsing xml, presenting an XML structure right with the indentation; like looking at processes execution status on a multi-platform system; like changing the registry under WinNT to register a new service...) then I do it in Perl, but the "outside look" of the script is really harder to do. Another thing might be the tools I use to program, but the fact is I use vim commonly and when you use a print <<"EOF", what comes next is colored as a simple string and the html is not recognized in there, which is then more complex when you are used to syntax colouring that indicates clearly the html tags and attributes in different colors. -- But there surely is some tool which can make your life easier with Perl CGI programming! Which one? Show me... > --But the world will not end if I make ugly html as long as it works like a tank! Right. How much time do you need to learn perl web scripting to be sure it works like a tank? Zend (PHP developer?) has published a survey on their website about the use of PHP worldwide. Maybe comparing to a similar survey from Perl would just give some answers we didn't think about. > --And what evil will this lead up to besides? > For one, people recommending PHP scripts on a Perl list, the last place > you'd think such a thing would happen. Well, I know that you are one of the most active persons here Dan, so I wouldn't want to hurt your feelings, but the purpose of any programming mailing list should be to help people out. If somebody answers with a PHP recommendation... well... maybe it's worth comparing. For example in this matter, would you have a quick answer to give to William about his web calendar? That's the thing, if you want to achieve great things fast, you'll have to rely on already done solutions sometime, I don't mean you don't know it, I'm just considering the point in this context. > -- Ok I'm with you but what to do? > > I say we each put more personal emphasis on the look of the output > of things we develop and stress that to people the same way we stress > using strict, using modules instead of reinventing stuff, and making > things platform independent. I say I could be really with you if I were stronger in Perl programming. In fact I'm just starting my programming life at the moment and I am waiting for some job to give a language direction to my career. Now I do a lot of web development and I've never yet come to a company which asked me to do it in Perl. How comes? Well... I think nature does its job of selection and if PHP (I'll say beeeuuur about ASP just for the pleasure of the troll:-)) is more widely present for web development, it is that it's faster to do what you want. Now if I were to be paid to do the same in Perl, I wouldn't mind. But then I'll have to use the things I learned for another project so as to get stronger and stronger in Perl. I really don't mind, I just wonder if enough companies will ask me to develop in Perl so as to let me eat... Being easier to learn (which I think is the case for PHP only because it's restricted and that their website is nicely done) is also a recurrent thing. When you haven't done some Perl or PHP for a while, it's also harder to recover your skills in Perl. --But then how could it be sorted? I think people should concentrate more around one website and make more documentation about Perl. Also, if that doesn't exist, somebody should make something to be able to embed Perl into html instead of embedding html into Perl. Once this is done, I'm sure Perl would just be light like a feather and solid as a tank in the same time (and then beat PHP on its own ground). I doubt this would happen fast enough to catch up PHP on its ground. I hope so however. > Thoughts, feelings, pros, cons, pummeling? Thanks for asking. The same applies to my answers. Yannick -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]