I'll have to check the language reference. To me, "simple" is something I can talk about for 20 minutes in class and the students will understand it completely.
On Nov 20, 2007 2:43 PM, Gerry Creager <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Ooh! Flamebait! > > Nathan Moore wrote: > > I regularly teach a college course in a physics department that deals > > with scientific computation. After students take the course, I expect > > that they'll be able to write simple "c-tran" style programs for data > > analysis, write basic MD or MC simulations, and be fairly fluent in > > Mathematica. > > > > In the past, I figured that with the breadth of topics included in the > > course, Fortran, specifically the basic, simple, and reliable F77 > > dialect (w/ some F90 conveniences) was the language to teach. In my own > > head, my rationale was: > > - Most students can grasp the basics of fortran in half a day's reading, > > so I can spend more class time on science and math (probably because > > there are no pointers - I think that C is much harder for students and > > sometimes "seems" less like mathematical syntax than f77) > > - "Classical Fortran" is a great text and is readable for self-study (I > > know of no such text for C/C++) > > - several free compilers exist (g95 seems ok so far) > > - Netlib, lapack, and numerical recipes cover the math library > adequately > > - F77 is compiled (Perl/python are too slow for an MD/MC sim and I > > figure that students should know at least on compiled language and one > > scripting language to be competent) > > - MPI is a relatively basic addition to the language (again, no > > pointers, allocation, or addressing) > > > > After reflection though, I've started to wonder about the wisdom of my > > choice. Specifically (like RGB), I love the GSL library, and extending > > GSL to fortran in an intro class is non-trivial. Additionally, most > > vendors supply "fast" hardware libraries in C (I may be ignorant, but if > > a student wants to call an AMD ACML fast-math function( > > http://developer.amd.com/acml.jsp), or write a linear algebra function > > to run on a graphics card(http://developer.nvidia.com/object/cuda.html > > <http://developer.nvidia.com/object/cuda.html>), the vendors seem to > > assume that you'll write the code in C). > > > > Also, and more relevant, I assume that most employers word-associate > > "Fortran is to backwards as C is to competence". > > > > So, I'm thinking about reworking the class to favor C, and fearing 3 > > weeks of pointer and addressing hell. For those of you who teach > > scientific computation (and also those of you who hire undergrads), I'd > > be grateful for your thoughts. One specific question I have is what > > text covers scientific programming and touches on MPI using the C > language. > > With the advent of F90 and F95, the ability to call a C/C++ library > routine became significantly simpler. That said, it's not ever > "exactly" simple to port someone else's libs from one language to > another, but it's not really that hard, either. > > In the atmospheric sciences community, well, call us backward, but most > of our applications are still coded in the arcane language of our > fathe... er, in Fortran. Mostly for the reasons you originally cite. > and, no, they haven't changed. > > As for an employer looking for a C-competent programmer over a > Fortran-competent programmer, well, they'd not get a great deal if they > want someone to work with a suite of models in the "wrong" language. > They should be looking for someone who's able to deal with the language > of interest... and perhaps to pick up a new language if the new model of > the day warrants it. > -- > Gerry Creager -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Texas Mesonet -- AATLT, Texas A&M University > Cell: 979.229.5301 Office: 979.458.4020 FAX: 979.862.3983 > Office: 1700 Research Parkway Ste 160, TAMU, College Station, TX 77843 > > -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Nathan Moore Assistant Professor, Physics Winona State University AIM: nmoorewsu - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
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