Hi, I believe Blender should stick to the VFX platform. After all that has been said, I think it may boil down to making a decision between immediate known benefits and strategic uncertain long-term benefits.
* On one hand we have tangible benefits for some users that we know of (e.g., Python scripters will benefit from Python 3.10). * On the other hand sticking to the VFX platform can pay off in the long run with making Blender more likely to be integrated in large pipelines. One of the long-term goals for the Blender project, is to welcome more contributions by the industry. And I think investing on that vision trumps the immediate benefit the latest Python (or other library) brings to Blender. To have studios contributing to Blender is a two-way street. And Blender sticking to the VFX is the least the Blender project can do on its end. I look forward to see this and other efforts in that direction, such as onboarding, code documentation, infrastructure and development practices. To move this forward I'm setting up a call with the other bf-admins next week. We will report back afterwards. Thanks everything for the contributions, -Dalai- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Dalai Felinto - da...@blender.org - www.blender.org Blender Development Coordinator Buikslotermeerplein 161, 1025 ET Amsterdam, the Netherlands Op vr 21 jan. 2022 om 10:02 schreef Sergey Sharybin via Bf-committers < bf-committers@blender.org>: > Hi, > > Jason, taking the LTS release schedule, Python/other libraries release > schedule, and VFX platform release schedule, I am not really sure how to > achieve this in practice. Not even sure it brings more solutions than > problems. > > Ray, our paths might be different but the goal is the same: minimize gray > area. Define what is really important for the project, and work towards > that. It might not be something the Platform is aimed to solve, but is > something Blender will find important. > > Best regards, > - Sergey - > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Sergey Sharybin - ser...@blender.org - www.blender.org > Principal Software Engineer, Blender > Buikslotermeerplein 161, 1025 ET Amsterdam, the Netherlands > > > On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 12:51 AM Ray Molenkamp via Bf-committers < > bf-committers@blender.org> wrote: > > > I don't think any of the major vendors (nor us) will build openvdb > > with a wonky blosc version that will give compatibility issues, point > > is neither the danger of using a "wrong" blosc version nor any other > > mention of file compatibility is in the platform (but it is in the > > openvdb documentation) So my argument was about not referring to > > the platform as an authority on file compatibility, since they aren't. > > The choice to follow the platform or not is a completely separate > > choice. > > > > I'm desperately trying to get us to a point where rather than an > > uncommitted, "we follow some things, not others, kinda depends on our > > mood, and if we like to make a random exception or not, also here are > > some arbitrary commitments to things that platform doesn't even seem to > > do" to a crystal clear: > > > > -These are the things we do > > -These are the things we don't > > > > I'd rather give users like you solid hard disappointment you can > > count on, than comforting false hope that will disappoint. Guaranteed > > platform adherence would have been acceptable as well, but that does > > not appear to be the direction we are appear to be leaning. > > > > My objective is to minimize/eliminate the "gray zone" blender has > > been in for the last few years regarding the platform, VFX Platform in or > > out, I'm cool either way, but we have to pick a team and communicate it > > clearly to our users. > > > > --Ray > > > > On 2022-01-20 12:40 p.m., Scott Wilson wrote: > > > I'm sort of out of the loop, but has there been communications with the > > VFX Reference Platform recently? I think that some of the issues brought > up > > such as build flags for OpenVDB could be resolved. I know that as a > > pipeline TD in a studio, having all of the vendors on the same page about > > all attributes of the build environment makes my life much easier. So, I > > throw what little say I have into getting Blender and the platform > aligned. > > > > > > On Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 11:22 AM Ray Molenkamp via Bf-committers < > > bf-committers@blender.org> wrote: > > > > > > While I do not mind the practical nuts and bolts of this > > > proposal at all, I do mind the language, referring to the > > > VFX Platform as something worth looking at regarding file > > > or platform compatibility is unfortunate. > > > > > > The Platform as is makes no attempt to manage file compatibility > > > throughout the pipeline, the big-ticket items in this space such > > > as USD and/or MaterialX aren't even in the platform, the things > > > that are in the platform, such as OpenVDB that have _severe_ > > > file compat issues if build incorrectly do not even have a footnote > > > about it. The only logical conclusion here is, the VFX Platform > > > is a not authority to appeal to regarding file compatibility, so > > > best not to. > > > > > > As for platform compatibility, the messaging in the VFX Platform > > > is confusing, for linux it declares a glibc version, for macOS it > > > declares a deployment target, so far so good, but then for windows > > > it does none of these things, and just recommends a compiler and > SDK > > of > > > which neither determine the OS versions the resulting code can > > > run on, the inclusion of python 3.9 indirectly implies windows 8.1 > > > is their minimum windows deployment target, but honestly I'm unsure > > > if even they are aware of this implication. > > > > > > I'd like to see the proposal move more into concrete direction: > > > > > > > Blender does NOT follow the VFX platform. > > > > > > > > - Blender aims be compatible with operating systems VFX Platform > > compatible software will be able run on. > > > > - blender aims not to break file compatibility for 3rd party > > formats such as EXR, VDB, Alembic: files exported from Blender should be > > usable in other software used in the pipeline, and vice-versa. > > > > > > The last item > > > > > > > - Not to break external render engines > > > > > > Is just not something I think we can we can practically commit to, > > > these are generally linked directly to the python shared libs, > > > and bumping python versions will definitely break most if not all > > > of them. > > > > > > To put an end to having to have this conversation every year, I'd > > > like to break the loop with the following text: > > > > > > > Major blender releases will ship with the latest major python > > version available during BCON1 in its development. > > > > > > My proposal > > > > > > - Clarifies our stance on the VFX Platform > > > - Doesn't appeal to an authority the VFX Platform clearly lacks > > regarding file compat. > > > - Somewhat commits to running on the same platforms as the VFX > > platform (as much as it can be deduced from the platform, they are vague > > about it, hard to make any solid commitments here). > > > - Makes the python version blender will ship with predictable. > > > > > > Note that personally, I may or may not approve of the direction > being > > > taken here, but judging from your internal discussions this seems > to > > be > > > the way we want to go as a project, in which case clear language is > > > undoubtedly better than vague commitments that sound nice but may > > > set unrealistic expectations. > > > > > > --Ray > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Bf-committers mailing list > > > Bf-committers@blender.org > > > List details, subscription details or unsubscribe: > > > https://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Bf-committers mailing list > > Bf-committers@blender.org > > List details, subscription details or unsubscribe: > > https://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers > > > _______________________________________________ > Bf-committers mailing list > Bf-committers@blender.org > List details, subscription details or unsubscribe: > https://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers > _______________________________________________ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org List details, subscription details or unsubscribe: https://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers