It seems obvious to me that anyone who is confused about what it means when a bicyclist sticks their right arm out horizontally should not be riding a bike and very definitely should not be allowed to operate a motor vehicle.
On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 3:45 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > Send Bikies mailing list submissions to > [email protected] > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > [email protected] > > You can reach the person managing the list at > [email protected] > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Bikies digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Bike Hand Signals (Kristine M. Niemann) > 2. Re: Bike Hand Signals (Robbie Webber) > 3. Re: Bike Hand Signals (Michael Rewey) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2011 11:32:20 -0700 (PDT) > From: "Kristine M. Niemann" <[email protected]> > To: Bikies <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Bikies] Bike Hand Signals > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Hmmm. Never really concerned changing the whole system. I think the logic > behind it is that you ride on the right and pass on the left, therefore > anyone > behind you would be watching the left side of your body for signals. I > guess > if that works for you...whatever turns your crank. ha ha. But, I still > think > the kids should be taught the correct way, just for safety reasons. > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Sean B. Cash <[email protected]> > To: India Rose Viola <[email protected]> > Cc: Bikies <[email protected]> > Sent: Mon, April 18, 2011 1:05:26 PM > Subject: Re: [Bikies] Bike Hand Signals > > > I strongly agree with India on this last point. I think that there is a > large > number of people (esp. non-cyclists) out there who wouldn't even recognize > the > bent-left-arm signal as a signal at all until too late. I used to signal > that > way, and deliberately switched to a straight left- or right-arm turn signal > many > years ago. > > Best regards, > > Sean > > > On Apr 18, 2011, at 1:01 PM, India Rose Viola wrote: > > Kris, > > > >Just to put it out there- what is confusing about having someone signal > for a > >right turn with their right arm extended? I think that the right arm > extended > >for a right turn is now a well-known convention. It makes a lot more > sense to > >me than the bent left arm that was a byproduct of being in a car with only > a > >window on the left side to stick your arm out of. > > > > > >I think it is ok have the conventions evolve to become more efficient and > >straightforward for their functions. > > > >-india > > > > > > > > > > > >On 04/18/11, "Kristine M. Niemann" <[email protected]> wrote: > >Mary, I couldn't agree more. We definitely need to revisit bike education > in > >the schools. I've been meaning to contact someone about getting this in > my > >son's school. Last week I saw I mom and bike trailer and two kids on > small > >bikes behind her on the left side of the road. I had just turned onto the > >street they were riding on and almost hit them. It sent a chill down my > spine > >to think of the tragedy of if I were a car. > >> > >>also, people don't' seem to understand bike hand signals > anymore...especially > >>for a right turn. I see a lot of the straight arm right turn signals, > and it's > >>just confusing, since it's against convention. Since hand signals are a > >>split-second type of thing, it can get confusing and dangerous when > people start > >>making up signals. > >>kris > >> > >> > >> > ________________________________ > From: Mary Mullen <[email protected]> > >>To: Matt Logan <[email protected]>; Tom Held < > [email protected]>; > >>"Corsi, Larry - DOT" <[email protected]> > >>Cc: Amanda White <[email protected]>; [email protected] > >>Sent: Mon, April 18, 2011 12:26:41 PM > >>Subject: Re: [Bikies] Off the Couch post on cyclist deaths - vulnerable > user > >law > >> > >>One thing I?ve noticed regarding bike safety is that a number of people ? > both > >>adults and kids ? ride their bikes on the left facing traffic rather than > being > >>on the right going with traffic. I?ve seen this on the Verona Road and > Beltline > >>frontage roads and on ordinary Madison streets as well. Maybe some > education in > >>the schools is called for? > >> > >> > >>On 4/18/11 11:16 AM, "Matt Logan" <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >> > >>I know the BFW is well-intentioned in this, but a quick read of the > comments > >>clearly demonstrated to me why the BFW is barking up the wrong tree: Our > >>current state leaders are likely to blame bicyclists for their deaths > when they > >>hear these stories. I have heard it takes repeating something seven > times for a > >>message to sink in, so I will say it again: the BFW?s best chance of > making > >>progress with the current administration is funding better, safer travel > for > >>children on bicycles. I have talked to a lot of conservatives and > listened to > >>conservative radio. They don?t value adult bicycling enough to fund it. > If you > >>want to succeed, target improving bicycling for children. > >>> > >>> > >>>From: [email protected] [mailto: > [email protected]] > >>>On Behalf Of Tom Held > >>>Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 9:34 AM > >>>To: 'Corsi, Larry - DOT' > >>>Cc: [email protected] > >>>Subject: [Bikies] Off the Couch post on cyclist deaths - vulnerable user > law > >>> > >>> > >>>http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/lifestyle/120010609.html > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > >>>Bikies mailing list > >>>[email protected] > >>>http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org > >>> > > > --India Viola > Stretton Lab > 115 Zoology Research > 1117 W. Johnson St. > Madison, WI 53706 > 608.262.3336 > > "How can we learn from our mistakes if we don't first acknowledge them?" > -Anonymous > > Corporations are not citizens. Money is not speech. > _______________________________________________ > Bikies mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.danenet.org/private.cgi/bikies-danenet.org/attachments/20110418/157b406b/attachment.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2011 14:46:02 -0500 > From: Robbie Webber <[email protected]> > To: "Kristine M. Niemann" <[email protected]> > Cc: Bikies <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Bikies] Bike Hand Signals > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > As someone who has taught bicycle safety to both kids and adults, here are > a > couple of thoughts on hand signals. > > 1. Kids sometimes have a hard time remembering right from left, especially > when they are doing something else - like learning to control their bikes > in > traffic. It is much easier to teach them to "point the direction you want > to > turn." > > 2. Drivers seem to intuitively understand the idea of bicyclists pointing > the direction they want to go. It always works for me. > > 3. The last time I used a bent-arm right-turn signal, the driver thought I > was offering the one-finger salute, despite the fact that I used my whole > hand. > > 4. Using hand signals is much less important than riding predictably and > communicating with drivers. Looking over my shoulder to indicate I want to > make a lateral move is actually far more successful, in my experience. > Also, > hand signals are only required if you can take your hand off the handlebars > safely. In some traffic environments or pavement conditions (potholes), > that > can be tough. > > 5. Teaching kids to look over their shoulder without veering from a > straight > line is a much tougher and also much more important skill than using hand > signals. After all, even if you signal, that doesn't mean it's safe to > turn. > > For more information about how to teach kids safe bicycling, and why they > get into the types of crashes they do (it's not the same reasons or same > crash types as adults) there is a free class being offered in Fitchburg by > the DOT, Saturday, May 7: > http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/safety/vehicle/bicycle/docs/tsb-brochure.pdf > > <http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/safety/vehicle/bicycle/docs/tsb-brochure.pdf > > > Robbie Webber > > On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 1:32 PM, Kristine M. Niemann <[email protected] > >wrote: > > > But, I still think the kids should be taught the correct way, just for > > safety reasons. > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.danenet.org/private.cgi/bikies-danenet.org/attachments/20110418/b843c99c/attachment-0001.htm > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2011 15:30:50 -0500 > From: "Michael Rewey" <[email protected]> > To: Bikies <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Bikies] Bike Hand Signals > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Kristine > > Traditionally the left hand was used because you could not see a car > driver's right hand. This > does not apply to cyclists. Visibility as you suggest is not really the > issue - remember the > right signal on a car is lower right on a car. > > Any way the Bike Fed has this on their legislative plate. Right now > (illogically) only the left > hand can be used for signalling by a bicyclist . The Bike Fed wants to > change the law so > either hand can be used for signalling. > > Mike Rewey > > .-------------------------------------------------- > On 18 Apr 2011 at 11:32, Kristine M. Niemann wrote: > > Hmmm. Never really concerned changing the whole system. I think the logic > behind it is that > you ride on the right and pass on the left, therefore anyone behind you > would be watching the > left side of your body for signals. I guess if that works for > you...whatever turns your crank. > ha ha. But, I still think the kids should be taught the correct way, just > for safety reasons. > > > From: Sean B. Cash <[email protected]> > To: India Rose Viola <[email protected]> > Cc: Bikies <[email protected]> > Sent: Mon, April 18, 2011 1:05:26 PM > Subject: Re: [Bikies] Bike Hand Signals > > I strongly agree with India on this last point. I think that there is a > large > number of people (esp. non-cyclists) out there who wouldn't even recognize > the bent-left-arm signal as a signal at all until too late. I used to > signal that > way, and deliberately switched to a straight left- or right-arm turn signal > many > years ago. > > Best regards, > > Sean > > On Apr 18, 2011, at 1:01 PM, India Rose Viola wrote: > > Kris, > > Just to put it out there- what is confusing about having someone signal > for a right turn > with their right arm extended? I think that the right arm extended for a > right turn is now > a well-known convention. It makes a lot more sense to me than the bent > left arm that > was a byproduct of being in a car with only a window on the left side to > stick your arm > out of. > > I think it is ok have the conventions evolve to become more efficient > and > straightforward for their functions. > > -india > > > > > > On 04/18/11, "Kristine M. Niemann" <[email protected]> wrote: > Mary, I couldn't agree more. We definitely need to revisit bike education > in > the schools. I've been meaning to contact someone about getting this in > my son's school. Last week I saw I mom and bike trailer and two kids on > small bikes behind her on the left side of the road. I had just turned onto > the street they were riding on and almost hit them. It sent a chill down my > spine to think of the tragedy of if I were a car. > > also, people don't' seem to understand bike hand signals > anymore...especially for a right turn. I see a lot of the straight arm > right > turn signals, and it's just confusing, since it's against convention. Since > hand signals are a split-second type of thing, it can get confusing and > dangerous when people start making up signals. > kris > > > From: Mary Mullen <[email protected]> > To: Matt Logan <[email protected]>; Tom Held > <[email protected]>; "Corsi, Larry - DOT" > <[email protected]> > Cc: Amanda White <[email protected]>; [email protected] > Sent: Mon, April 18, 2011 12:26:41 PM > Subject: Re: [Bikies] Off the Couch post on cyclist deaths - vulnerable > user law > > One thing I?ve noticed regarding bike safety is that a number of > people - both adults and kids - ride their bikes on the left facing > traffic rather than being on the right going with traffic. I?ve seen > this on the Verona Road and Beltline frontage roads and on > ordinary Madison streets as well. Maybe some education in the > schools is called for? > > > On 4/18/11 11:16 AM, "Matt Logan" <[email protected]> > wrote: > > I know the BFW is well-intentioned in this, but a quick read of > the comments clearly demonstrated to me why the BFW is > barking up the wrong tree: Our current state leaders are likely > to blame bicyclists for their deaths when they hear these stories. > I have heard it takes repeating something seven times for a > message to sink in, so I will say it again: the BFW?s best chance > of making progress with the current administration is funding > better, safer travel for children on bicycles. I have talked to a lot > of conservatives and listened to conservative radio. They don?t > value adult bicycling enough to fund it. If you want to succeed, > target improving bicycling for children. > > > From: [email protected] [mailto:bikies- > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Tom Held > Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 9:34 AM > To: 'Corsi, Larry - DOT' > Cc: [email protected] > Subject: [Bikies] Off the Couch post on cyclist deaths - > vulnerable user law > > > http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/lifestyle/1200 > 10609.html > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Bikies mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org > > > > > > -- > India Viola > Stretton Lab > 115 Zoology Research > 1117 W. Johnson St. > Madison, WI 53706 > 608.262.3336 > > "How can we learn from our mistakes if we don't first acknowledge them?" > -Anonymous > > Corporations are not citizens. Money is not speech. > _______________________________________________ > Bikies mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Bikies mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org > > > End of Bikies Digest, Vol 30, Issue 23 > ************************************** > -- Jim [email protected] http://webpages.charter.net/jhenkel/
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