Re: Brian Mink: "Strikes me as primarily an education versus an enforcement issue. I queried a group of cyclists via email about their knowledge of the rules/laws that Chuck and Bill reference and to a person not one in 10 of these life long cyclists were familiar with the Wisconsin Law governing electric bikes."
Brian -- I agree that all cyclists should be familiar with the laws surrounding electric assist bikes and electric motorized bike use on cycleways and trails, but the key population to educate is the users of e-bikes. I'm not sure if you polled any electric assist bike riders -- it could be that population is more educated about the laws regarding motorized bicycles than the average traditional cyclist in the same way that traditional cyclists are more knowledgeable about cycling laws than motorists are, even though both bicycles and cars are legally vehicles. Best, Rob Schultz On Fri, Jul 8, 2016 at 11:26 AM, via Bikies <bikies@lists.danenet.org> wrote: > Send Bikies mailing list submissions to > bikies@lists.danenet.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > bikies-requ...@lists.danenet.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > bikies-ow...@lists.danenet.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Bikies digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: FW: NYTimes/Gretchen Reynolds: The Surprising Health > Benefits of an Electric Bike (Brian Mink via Bikies) > 2. Re: FW: NYTimes/Gretchen Reynolds: The Surprising Health > Benefits of an Electric Bike (William Hauda via Bikies) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2016 11:23:15 -0500 > From: Brian Mink via Bikies <bikies@lists.danenet.org> > To: William Hauda <hau...@hughes.net> > Cc: bikies@lists.danenet.org > Subject: Re: [Bikies] FW: NYTimes/Gretchen Reynolds: The Surprising > Health Benefits of an Electric Bike > Message-ID: <577fd373.60...@gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed" > > Strikes me as primarily an education versus an enforcement issue. I > queried a group of cyclists via email about their knowledge of the > rules/laws that Chuck and Bill reference and to a person not one in 10 > of these life long cyclists were familiar with the Wisconsin Law > governing electric bikes. > > Brian Mink > Monona, WI > > > William Hauda via Bikies <mailto:bikies@lists.danenet.org> > > July 8, 2016 at 11:09 AM > > Make that 28 mph on Speed Pedelecs. But I'm certain there are > > people working on faster speeds. It's human nature. > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Bikies mailing list > > Bikies@lists.danenet.org > > http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org > > William Hauda via Bikies <mailto:bikies@lists.danenet.org> > > July 8, 2016 at 11:05 AM > > Currently Wisconsin state law prohibits use of E-bikes on bike > > ways with the motor engaged. That is Madison's policy also. There is a > > question whether the restrictions apply to state trails and the > > Nonmotorized Recreation and Transportation Trails Council is currently > > exploring options. Two major states have tried to tackle this. > > California early this year enacted legislation creating classes of > > E-bikes with rules on how each class can be used. In New York, the > > effort got sidetracked because of a single legislator who chairs the > > transportation committee. The problem we are dealing with in Wisconsin > > is the emerging Speed Pedelec technology. These bikes, popular in > > Europe, are capable of 38 mph. Our concern is that mixing electric > > assisted bikes with all of the other nonmotorized users of the trails > > (like walkers, roller bladers, runners and bicyclists) creates a > > dangerous mix. How to avoid that is the goal of NRTTC. Enforcement of > > speed limits is problematic. Can you tell whether a motor is engaged? > > Probably not because electric motors are silent. While DNR does have > > some radar certified employees they don't have enough staff to handle > > the daily chores, let alone run speed traps. So it's a complex issue > > and we on the NRTTC are working on it. > > > > Bill Hauda, bicycling representative, NRTTC > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Bikies mailing list > > Bikies@lists.danenet.org > > http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org > > Chuck Strawser via Bikies <mailto:bikies@lists.danenet.org> > > July 8, 2016 at 10:42 AM > > Brian and I exhanged emails off-list, and then he agreed that it was > > worth sharing that exchange to the list. It's copied below. > > chuck > > > > > > From: Chuck Strawser > > Sent: Friday, July 08, 2016 10:35 AM > > To: 'Brian Mink' > > Subject: RE: [Bikies] NYTimes/Gretchen Reynolds: The Surprising Health > > Benefits of an Electric Bike > > > > Brian, > > > > There are also already state rules in place that define "motor > > bicycles" as those going less than 20mph, and even those are not > > allowed to be used on bike paths *under power* (you can pedal them > > unassisted on paths). See state statute below, and also the useful > > page from the city's website. > > > > So the trike that passed you at 35mph was already in violation of the > > rules, and does not meet the state definition of a "motor bicycle" > > (and is therefore not legal on streets, either). > > > > But like every other law, it's meaningless unless it's enforced. > > Look at the posted speed limits (for motor vehicles). How many people > > are ticketed for driving 40mph on the sections of University Ave that > > are signed 25mph? > > > > Since you replied to me only, I won't post this on the list-serv > > without asking you. I think it's relevant to the discussion, so you > > might consider posting it (and my response) yourself. > > > > State Statute 340.01(30) defines a "motor bicycle": > > http://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/340.pdf > > 340.01(30) "Motor bicycle" means any of the following: > > (a) A bicycle to which a power unit not an integral part of the > > vehicle has been added to permit the vehicle to travel at a speed of > > not more than 30 miles per hour with a 150-pound rider on a dry, > > level, hard surface with no wind and having a seat for the operator. > > (b) A 2-wheeled or 3-wheeled vehicle that has fully operative pedals > > for propulsion by human power and an electric motor of less than 750 > > watts and that is capable, when powered solely by the motor, of a > > maximum speed of less than 20 miles per hour with a 170-pound rider on > > a dry, level, hard surface with no wind. > > > > Here's a useful page from the city's website. Although this page makes > > no mention of bikes with something other than an electric motor, all > > the prohibitions on using an electric bicycle also apply to motor > > bicycles with gas engines. > > > http://www.cityofmadison.com/trafficEngineering/documents/ElecBikeLawsWeb20130520v.pdf > > > > Chuck Strawser > > Pedestrian & Bicycle Transportation Planner > > Commuter Solutions > > UW-Madison Transportation Services > > > > Please note that my email address has changed. My new email is > > charles.straw...@wisc.edu<mailto:charles.straw...@wisc.edu> > > > > Visit our University Bicycle Resource Center at Helen C White: > > http://transportation.wisc.edu/transportation/bike_annex.aspx > > > > How are we doing? Take our customer satisfaction survey at > > https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/CommSol_CSSurvey > > > > > > > > From: Brian Mink [mailto:bcm...@gmail.com] > > Sent: Friday, July 08, 2016 10:22 AM > > To: Chuck Strawser > > Subject: Re: [Bikies] NYTimes/Gretchen Reynolds: The Surprising Health > > Benefits of an Electric Bike > > > > Thanks Chuck. Many jurisdictions go beyond the simple rule that > > Madison has posted on bike trails by restricting maximum speed. Some > > of the electric hub motors are quite capable of reaching 35 miles per > > hour. I was passed by a high end trike last week that was probably > > doing 30 mph outfitted with the most powerful BionX hub motor. > > Madison's common courtesy and common sense "Yield to slower users" is > > a nice start but I think Madison will likely have to deal with an > > overall speed limit on bike trails, eventually. > > > > Brian Mink > > > > Chuck Strawser via Bikies<mailto:bikies@lists.danenet.org> > > July 8, 2016 at 10:14 AM > > Brian Mink said: "I've noticed that most west coast cities that allow > > electric bikes do have rules that include behaving in regard to > > maximum speed, passing, remaining non aggressive and the like. Should > > Madison have such rules and post them? Probably." > > > > Madison already has rules, and does post them. They are on all the > > wayfinding signs along bike paths all around town, and among those > > rules is this one: > > "Faster {path] users yield to slower users" > > > > Which gets to the crux of the issue - how someone operates their > > vehicle is often as important (or more important) to the safety of > > others than exactly what kind of vehicle it is. > > > > > > > > Chuck Strawser > > Pedestrian & Bicycle Transportation Planner > > Commuter Solutions > > UW-Madison Transportation Services > > > > Please note that my email address has changed. My new email is > > charles.straw...@wisc.edu<mailto:charles.straw...@wisc.edu><mailto: > charles.straw...@wisc.edu><mailto:charles.straw...@wisc.edu> > > > > Visit our University Bicycle Resource Center at Helen C White: > > http://transportation.wisc.edu/transportation/bike_annex.aspx > > > > How are we doing? Take our customer satisfaction survey at > > https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/CommSol_CSSurvey > > > > > > > > > > From: Bikies [mailto:bikies-boun...@lists.danenet.org] On Behalf Of > > Brian Mink via Bikies > > Sent: Friday, July 08, 2016 9:59 AM > > To: rpaol...@execpc.com<mailto:rpaol...@execpc.com> > > Cc: Scott Morris Rose; Bikies > > Subject: Re: [Bikies] NYTimes/Gretchen Reynolds: The Surprising Health > > Benefits of an Electric Bike > > > > I happen to know folks who due to one arthritic malady or less than > > optimal joint replacement surgery have opted for electric assist bikes > > or wheels with hub motors. > > > > I also have taken note of many more cyclists of larger habitus using > > electric assist bikes. Then there are a whole bunch or cargo/kid > > hauler electric assist bikes on trails around town. > > > > I think they are a good thing. Most of us able bodied, hard core > > enthusiasts will put off or scorn the thought of using electric > > assist. Let's assume that most folks who use electric assist do so > > based on some need that we probably don't know about. Many work places > > don't have showers. Electric assist one could image, can keep one > > below the gushing sweat threshold on the morning commute. > > > > I've noticed that most west coast cities that allow electric bikes do > > have rules that include behaving in regard to maximum speed, passing, > > remaining non aggressive and the like. Should Madison have such rules > > and post them? Probably. > > > > Bottom line is: even the heartiest of urban cyclists might age into > > the need for an electric assist bicycle at some point and then we'll > > look back on our years of scorn and finally come to the conclusion > > that we were not being understanding, nice or fair. > > > > Brian Mink > > Monona > > > > > > via > > Bikies<mailto:bikies@lists.danenet.org><mailto:bikies@lists.danenet.org> > > July 8, 2016 at 9:45 AM > > > > If that what it takes to get these sedentary brutes onto a bike, then let > > > > them ride their electric bikes on roads and not on bike paths. > > > > .... > > > > Admittedly, my n is pretty small, but I resent these lazy assholes being > > > > on the bike paths. And it's bogus to say these are for sedentary folks. > > > > > > > > > > I personally could not see myself wanting one. (Years ago I tried one > when > > > > someone from MGE was demo-ing one at some event and I wasn't impressed.) > > > > But I also don't get all the hostility about them. I don't see how > > > > discourteous/unsafe passing is any more or less obnoxious by someone on > an > > > > electric-assist bike than it is by someone on a traditional bike who > > > > thinks he's doing Tour de France. A moron on an electric-assist bike is > > > > not inherently worse or more dangerous than a moron in Spandex<tm>. > > > > > > > > As for the opinion that most people using them will be former bicyclists, > > > > so what? If it helps keep on a bike someone who has diminished physical > > > > capability, what's wrong with that? > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Bikies mailing list > > > > Bikies@lists.danenet.org<mailto:Bikies@lists.danenet.org><mailto: > Bikies@lists.danenet.org><mailto:Bikies@lists.danenet.org> > > > > http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org > > > > -- > > Sent from > > Postbox< > https://www.postbox-inc.com/?utm_source=email&utm_medium=siglink&utm_campaign=reach > >< > https://www.postbox-inc.com/?utm_source=email&utm_medium=siglink&utm_campaign=reach > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Bikies mailing list > > Bikies@lists.danenet.org<mailto:Bikies@lists.danenet.org> > > http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org > > Brian Mink<mailto:bcm...@gmail.com> > > July 8, 2016 at 9:58 AM > > I happen to know folks who due to one arthritic malady or less than > > optimal joint replacement surgery have opted for electric assist bikes > > or wheels with hub motors. > > > > I also have taken note of many more cyclists of larger habitus using > > electric assist bikes. Then there are a whole bunch or cargo/kid > > hauler electric assist bikes on trails around town. > > > > I think they are a good thing. Most of us able bodied, hard core > > enthusiasts will put off or scorn the thought of using electric > > assist. Let's assume that most folks who use electric assist do so > > based on some need that we probably don't know about. Many work places > > don't have showers. Electric assist one could image, can keep one > > below the gushing sweat threshold on the morning commute. > > > > I've noticed that most west coast cities that allow electric bikes do > > have rules that include behaving in regard to maximum speed, passing, > > remaining non aggressive and the like. Should Madison have such rules > > and post them? Probably. > > > > Bottom line is: even the heartiest of urban cyclists might age into > > the need for an electric assist bicycle at some point and then we'll > > look back on our years of scorn and finally come to the conclusion > > that we were not being understanding, nice or fair. > > > > Brian Mink > > Monona > > via Bikies<mailto:bikies@lists.danenet.org> > > July 8, 2016 at 9:45 AM > > > > If that what it takes to get these sedentary brutes onto a bike, then let > > > > them ride their electric bikes on roads and not on bike paths. > > > > .... > > > > Admittedly, my n is pretty small, but I resent these lazy assholes being > > > > on the bike paths. And it's bogus to say these are for sedentary folks. > > > > > By far, the most people who use them will be former bicyclists. > > > > > > > > I personally could not see myself wanting one. (Years ago I tried one > when > > > > someone from MGE was demo-ing one at some event and I wasn't impressed.) > > > > But I also don't get all the hostility about them. I don't see how > > > > discourteous/unsafe passing is any more or less obnoxious by someone on > an > > > > electric-assist bike than it is by someone on a traditional bike who > > > > thinks he's doing Tour de France. A moron on an electric-assist bike is > > > > not inherently worse or more dangerous than a moron in Spandex<tm>. > > > > > > > > As for the opinion that most people using them will be former bicyclists, > > > > so what? If it helps keep on a bike someone who has diminished physical > > > > capability, what's wrong with that? > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Bikies mailing list > > > > Bikies@lists.danenet.org<mailto:Bikies@lists.danenet.org> > > > > http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org > > > > -- > > Sent from > > Postbox< > https://www.postbox-inc.com/?utm_source=email&utm_medium=siglink&utm_campaign=reach > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Bikies mailing list > > Bikies@lists.danenet.org > > http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org > > Brian Mink <mailto:bcm...@gmail.com> > > July 8, 2016 at 10:21 AM > > Thanks Chuck. Many jurisdictions go beyond the simple rule that > > Madison has posted on bike trails by restricting maximum speed. Some > > of the electric hub motors are quite capable of reaching 35 miles per > > hour. I was passed by a high end trike last week that was probably > > doing 30 mph outfitted with the most powerful BionX hub motor. > > Madison's common courtesy and common sense "Yield to slower users" is > > a nice start but I think Madison will likely have to deal with an > > overall speed limit on bike trails, eventually. > > > > Brian Mink > > > > > > Chuck Strawser via Bikies <mailto:bikies@lists.danenet.org> > > July 8, 2016 at 10:14 AM > > Brian Mink said: "I've noticed that most west coast cities that allow > > electric bikes do have rules that include behaving in regard to > > maximum speed, passing, remaining non aggressive and the like. Should > > Madison have such rules and post them? Probably." > > > > Madison already has rules, and does post them. They are on all the > > wayfinding signs along bike paths all around town, and among those > > rules is this one: > > "Faster {path] users yield to slower users" > > > > Which gets to the crux of the issue - how someone operates their > > vehicle is often as important (or more important) to the safety of > > others than exactly what kind of vehicle it is. > > > > > > > > Chuck Strawser > > Pedestrian & Bicycle Transportation Planner > > Commuter Solutions > > UW-Madison Transportation Services > > > > Please note that my email address has changed. My new email is > > charles.straw...@wisc.edu<mailto:charles.straw...@wisc.edu> > > > > Visit our University Bicycle Resource Center at Helen C White: > > http://transportation.wisc.edu/transportation/bike_annex.aspx > > > > How are we doing? Take our customer satisfaction survey at > > https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/CommSol_CSSurvey > > > > > > > > > > From: Bikies [mailto:bikies-boun...@lists.danenet.org] On Behalf Of > > Brian Mink via Bikies > > Sent: Friday, July 08, 2016 9:59 AM > > To: rpaol...@execpc.com > > Cc: Scott Morris Rose; Bikies > > Subject: Re: [Bikies] NYTimes/Gretchen Reynolds: The Surprising Health > > Benefits of an Electric Bike > > > > I happen to know folks who due to one arthritic malady or less than > > optimal joint replacement surgery have opted for electric assist bikes > > or wheels with hub motors. > > > > I also have taken note of many more cyclists of larger habitus using > > electric assist bikes. Then there are a whole bunch or cargo/kid > > hauler electric assist bikes on trails around town. > > > > I think they are a good thing. Most of us able bodied, hard core > > enthusiasts will put off or scorn the thought of using electric > > assist. Let's assume that most folks who use electric assist do so > > based on some need that we probably don't know about. Many work places > > don't have showers. Electric assist one could image, can keep one > > below the gushing sweat threshold on the morning commute. > > > > I've noticed that most west coast cities that allow electric bikes do > > have rules that include behaving in regard to maximum speed, passing, > > remaining non aggressive and the like. Should Madison have such rules > > and post them? Probably. > > > > Bottom line is: even the heartiest of urban cyclists might age into > > the need for an electric assist bicycle at some point and then we'll > > look back on our years of scorn and finally come to the conclusion > > that we were not being understanding, nice or fair. > > > > Brian Mink > > Monona > > > > > > via Bikies<mailto:bikies@lists.danenet.org> > > July 8, 2016 at 9:45 AM > > > > If that what it takes to get these sedentary brutes onto a bike, then let > > > > them ride their electric bikes on roads and not on bike paths. > > > > .... > > > > Admittedly, my n is pretty small, but I resent these lazy assholes being > > > > on the bike paths. And it's bogus to say these are for sedentary folks. > > > > > By far, the most people who use them will be former bicyclists. > > > > > > > > I personally could not see myself wanting one. (Years ago I tried one > when > > > > someone from MGE was demo-ing one at some event and I wasn't impressed.) > > > > But I also don't get all the hostility about them. I don't see how > > > > discourteous/unsafe passing is any more or less obnoxious by someone on > an > > > > electric-assist bike than it is by someone on a traditional bike who > > > > thinks he's doing Tour de France. A moron on an electric-assist bike is > > > > not inherently worse or more dangerous than a moron in Spandex<tm>. > > > > > > > > As for the opinion that most people using them will be former bicyclists, > > > > so what? If it helps keep on a bike someone who has diminished physical > > > > capability, what's wrong with that? > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Bikies mailing list > > > > Bikies@lists.danenet.org<mailto:Bikies@lists.danenet.org> > > > > http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org > > > > -- > > Sent from > > Postbox< > https://www.postbox-inc.com/?utm_source=email&utm_medium=siglink&utm_campaign=reach > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Bikies mailing list > > Bikies@lists.danenet.org > > http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org > > -- > Sent from Postbox > < > https://www.postbox-inc.com/?utm_source=email&utm_medium=siglink&utm_campaign=reach > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.danenet.org/private.cgi/bikies-danenet.org/attachments/20160708/83af1f6b/attachment-0001.htm > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2016 11:26:37 -0500 > From: William Hauda via Bikies <bikies@lists.danenet.org> > To: bikies@lists.danenet.org > Subject: Re: [Bikies] FW: NYTimes/Gretchen Reynolds: The Surprising > Health Benefits of an Electric Bike > Message-ID: <0f7adb20-9333-8092-2a12-fc212d957...@hughes.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; Format="flowed" > > The complete text of state law as it impacts E-bikes (346.79 (5) is > the critical item): > > Electric bicycles in Wisconsin are defined as motor bicycles. Motor > bicycle operators are required to have a valid driver?s license. Motor > bicycles cannot be used on bike paths unless they are being operated > solely by pedal power, like a bike. When operating you also need to > follow the rules of the road. Here are the relevant state statutes. > > *340.01 (30) > <https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/340/01/30>*****Motor > bicycle means any of the following: > > (a) A bicycle to which a power unit not an integral part of the vehicle > has been added to permit the vehicle to travel at a speed of not more > than 30 miles per hour with a 150-pound rider on a dry, level, hard > surface with no wind and having a seat for the operator. > > (b) A 2-wheeled or 3-wheeled vehicle that has fully operative pedals for > propulsion by human power and an electric motor of less than 750 watts > and that is capable, when powered solely by the motor, of a maximum > speed of less than 20 miles per hour with a 170-pound rider on a dry, > level, hard surface with no wind. > > *343.05(3)(c) > <https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/343/II/05/3/c > >****Operators > to be licensed; exceptions.* > > *(3)***NONCOMMERCIAL VEHICLES > > (c) No person may operate a moped or motor bicycle unless the person > possesses a valid operators license or a special restricted operators > license issued under s. 343.135 or a restricted license issued under s. > 343.08. A license under this paragraph does not authorize operation of a > moped or motor bicycle if the license is revoked, suspended, canceled or > expired. > > *346.02(4) Applicability to persons riding bicycles and motor > bicycles.<http://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/1995/statutes/statutes/346/02/4 > >* > > ** > > *(a)*Subject to the special provisions applicable to bicycles, every > person riding a bicycle upon a roadway or shoulder of a highway is > granted all the rights and is subject to all the duties which this > chapter grants or applies to the operator of a vehicle, except those > provisions which by their express terms apply only to motor vehicles or > which by their very nature would have no application to bicycles. For > purposes of this chapter, provisions which apply to bicycles also apply > to motor bicycles, except as otherwise expressly provided. > > ** > > *(b)*Provisions which apply to the operation of bicycles in crosswalks > under ss. 346.23 > <http://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/document/statutes/1995/346.23>, 346.24 > <http://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/document/statutes/1995/346.24>, 346.37 > (1) (a) 2. > < > http://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/document/statutes/1995/346.37%281%29%28a%292 > .>, > (c) > < > http://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/document/statutes/1995/346.37%281%29%28c%29 > > > 2 and (d) 2. > < > http://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/document/statutes/1995/346.37%281%29%28d%292 > .> > and 346.38 > <http://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/document/statutes/1995/346.38> do not > apply to motor bicycles. > > *346.79 > <https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/346/XII/79>****Special > rules applicable to bicycles.* > > *(5)***No person may ride a moped or motor bicycle with the power unit > in operation upon a bicycle way. > > ** > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.danenet.org/private.cgi/bikies-danenet.org/attachments/20160708/ffa6c96c/attachment.htm > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Bikies mailing list > Bikies@lists.danenet.org > http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Bikies Digest, Vol 93, Issue 7 > ************************************* >
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