I'm all for the potential to greatly reduce the "road rage" factor against cyclists and everyone else, and to greatly reduce fatal and sub-fatal injury crashes.
However, there seems to be no cogent study available regarding the potential for brain and other impacts from the ubiquitous exposure to the Lidar and Radar waves that these vehicles will emit to navigate by. Maybe this will require that cyclists switch to an EMF-reflecting, blocking or absorbing helmet surface. Are manufacturers/users/permit issuers going to provide that to us for free? Maybe the amplitude/signal strength will not be of concern - but it seems no one is investigating that. And then our friends in the FBI are looking into some other potential drawbacks to the technology - via The Guardian: "In a section called Multitasking, the [FBI] report notes that “bad actors will be able to conduct tasks that require use of both hands or taking one’s eyes off the road which would be impossible today. One nightmare scenario could be suspects shooting at pursuers from getaway cars that are driving themselves. Self-driving cars <https://www.theguardian.com/technology/self-driving-cars> use lidar (laser ranging), radar, video cameras and GPS technology to build up a digital 3D map of their surroundings, including buildings, roads, pedestrians and other vehicles. The cars can then be programmed to navigate safely to a destination while avoiding obstacles and (usually) obeying the rules of the road. The report, written by agents in the Strategic Issues Group within the FBI’s Directorate of Intelligence <http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/intelligence>, says, “Autonomy … will make mobility more efficient, but will also open up greater possibilities for dual-use applications and ways for a car to be more of a potential lethal weapon that it is today.” This presumably reflects fears that criminals might override safety features to ignore traffic lights and speed limits, or that terrorists might program explosive-packed cars to become self-driving bombs. It directly contradicts the message that many developers of self-driving vehicles are trying to communicate: that these cars – immune from road rage, tiredness and carelessness – can be even safer than human operators." On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 3:32 PM, via Bikies <[email protected]> wrote: > Send Bikies mailing list submissions to > [email protected] > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > [email protected] > > You can reach the person managing the list at > [email protected] > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Bikies digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: NPR: Bikes May Have To Talk To Self-Driving Cars For > Safety's Sake (Joe Putzer via Bikies) > 2. Re: NPR: Bikes May Have To Talk To Self-Driving Cars For > Safety's Sake (Joe Putzer via Bikies) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2017 17:48:20 -0500 > From: Joe Putzer via Bikies <[email protected]> > To: Scott Morris Rose <[email protected]> > Cc: Bikies <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Bikies] NPR: Bikes May Have To Talk To Self-Driving Cars > For Safety's Sake > Message-ID: > <CABAmgkhrUvFRZQm4TVuJoJE-Co2HM5+qgtq9CvaDXW-fhZ77Zg@ > mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > I think it's a pretty informative piece. It takes analytical approach to > the challenges an autonomous vehicle may have navigating safely around > bicyclists and pedestrians. > > The software engineer of the autonomous vehicle company interviewed even > mentions a few of the issues bike safety advocates have been saying for > decades. For example: > > *"Cyclists, like pedestrians, are some of the most vulnerable road users," > Fairfield says. "And so we do want to treat them with extra caution and > care."* > > And another software engineer talked about how bicyclists are in this > middle grey area between cars and pedestrians. > > The goal of the research is to make a world filled with self-driving cars > safer for bicyclists and pedestrians. > > The writer/producer/reporter, Margaret J Krauss, is a cyclist too! She > biked 2000 miles in the Pittsburgh area while working for on a 48-hour > radio series on the history of the region. She also is part of the > Keystone Crossroads initiative that reports on solutions to urban crises in > Pennsylvania, including bicycles as a solution to infrastructure issues. > > I'm not sure if you've been in Pittsburgh recently, but bicycles and > bicycling infrastructure has been a big part of the revitalization of > Pittsburgh and part of that is because of the reporting from Margaret > Krauss and others with Keystone Crossroads. > > Below is a link to a few of pieces Keystone Crossroads has covered on > bicycling, but their work is so much more than that and worth an in-depth > look. > > http://crossroads.newsworks.org/index.php/keystone- > crossroads/item/74307#stq=bicycles&stp=1 > > > > > On Jul 24, 2017 11:51 PM, "Scott Morris Rose via Bikies" < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > Again, the responsibility for staying safe on a bicycle is shifted to the > > cyclist rather than the... ah... murderist. > > > > http://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2017/07/24/537 > > 746346/bikes-may-have-to-talk-to-self-driving-cars-for-safetys-sake > > > > -- > > S. Rose > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Bikies mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: <http://lists.danenet.org/private.cgi/bikies-danenet. > org/attachments/20170725/8c923bca/attachment.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2017 05:37:27 -0500 > From: Joe Putzer via Bikies <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Bikies] NPR: Bikes May Have To Talk To Self-Driving Cars > For Safety's Sake > Message-ID: > <CABAmgkhQsV+z+s_poEEBNZ5k7SFerDxisxFgdxT5mFgXp07= > [email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Nope, I didn't take your brief post as an attack on anything. My comments > are about the article and the producer and don't reference you or your > comment at all. I actually had to go back and see what your comment was > before responding here. > > I felt others might be interested in how the positive and proactive > approach Pittsburgh has taken to bicycling advocacy has been beneficial to > that region. The reporting of Krauss and Keystone Crossroads is a big part > of that and we all can learn from that success. > > But, the piece neither touches on the the cost of potential electronics nor > says that they will be complex. It does state that the software engineer's > hope is to embed potential software in smartphones, which is a device many > bicyclists currently have in their pocket while riding. My assumption is > that it would work in the background like the GPS in your smartphone does. > > I'm a touring cyclist and I know that dedicated bike lanes can't be built > everywhere I want to travel. Which means I'll still ride my bike on roads > self-driving cars could be on some day. If software embedded in my > smartphone that runs in the background like my GPS keeps me safer on the > road, I'm all for it. > > > > > > > > > > > On Jul 25, 2017 11:13 PM, "Scott Morris Rose" <[email protected]> wrote: > > I regret that my brief post evidently came across to you as an attack on > the author of the article and/or on the Pittsburgh metropolitan area. My > intended point was more along the lines that if staying safe on a bicycle > in the era of self-driving cars will require that cyclists have complex and > costly electronics on their bikes, there has been a loss. I agree that the > article was informative. > > > On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 3:48 PM, Joe Putzer <[email protected]> wrote: > > > I think it's a pretty informative piece. It takes analytical approach to > > the challenges an autonomous vehicle may have navigating safely around > > bicyclists and pedestrians. > > > > The software engineer of the autonomous vehicle company interviewed even > > mentions a few of the issues bike safety advocates have been saying for > > decades. For example: > > > > *"Cyclists, like pedestrians, are some of the most vulnerable road > users," > > Fairfield says. "And so we do want to treat them with extra caution and > > care."* > > > > And another software engineer talked about how bicyclists are in this > > middle grey area between cars and pedestrians. > > > > The goal of the research is to make a world filled with self-driving cars > > safer for bicyclists and pedestrians. > > > > The writer/producer/reporter, Margaret J Krauss, is a cyclist too! She > > biked 2000 miles in the Pittsburgh area while working for on a 48-hour > > radio series on the history of the region. She also is part of the > > Keystone Crossroads initiative that reports on solutions to urban crises > in > > Pennsylvania, including bicycles as a solution to infrastructure issues. > > > > I'm not sure if you've been in Pittsburgh recently, but bicycles and > > bicycling infrastructure has been a big part of the revitalization of > > Pittsburgh and part of that is because of the reporting from Margaret > > Krauss and others with Keystone Crossroads. > > > > Below is a link to a few of pieces Keystone Crossroads has covered on > > bicycling, but their work is so much more than that and worth an in-depth > > look. > > > > http://crossroads.newsworks.org/index.php/keystone-crossroad > > s/item/74307#stq=bicycles&stp=1 > > > > > > > > > > On Jul 24, 2017 11:51 PM, "Scott Morris Rose via Bikies" < > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > >> Again, the responsibility for staying safe on a bicycle is shifted to > the > >> cyclist rather than the... ah... murderist. > >> > >> http://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2017/07/24/537 > >> 746346/bikes-may-have-to-talk-to-self-driving-cars-for-safetys-sake > >> > >> -- > >> S. Rose > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Bikies mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org > >> > >> > > > -- > S. Rose > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: <http://lists.danenet.org/private.cgi/bikies-danenet. > org/attachments/20170726/3d55ced8/attachment-0001.htm> > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Bikies mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Bikies Digest, Vol 105, Issue 9 > ************************************** >
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