I appreciate the feedback.  I did make sure the ZSK is omnipresent and the 
issue still happens so it might be that my attempt to take the default policy 
and bring it down to 1 day to hurry along testing.  I will see if I can find 
any test policies in the list archives and failing that use the default one 
with a greater amount of patience.
________________________________
From: bind-users <bind-users-boun...@lists.isc.org> on behalf of Nick Tait via 
bind-users <bind-users@lists.isc.org>
Sent: Friday, September 29, 2023 5:37 PM
To: bind-users@lists.isc.org <bind-users@lists.isc.org>
Subject: Re: KASP Key Rollover: ZSK Disappears Immediately


Sorry I just realised that all that waffle about DS records is only relevant 
for KSKs (and CSKs), not ZSKs. So please disregard that. :-P


But I think the "rumoured" vs. "omnipresent" thing is still relevant and is the 
most likely explanation for why the old ZSK doesn't stick around. I can only 
assume that the reason you have rumoured state is because you are trying to 
roll your ZSK to soon after the previous ZSK rollover? Have you checked the 
various timing settings in the KASP definition?


Nick.



On 30/09/23 11:32, Nick Tait via bind-users wrote:
On 29/09/23 12:05, Eddie Rowe wrote:
When I perform a ZSK key rollover the existing ZSK disappears immediately so 
not sure what I am missing when using the KASP to manage key rollover.  The 
state for the keys looks good and for this test I have TTL set to 1 hour..  But 
why does dig not show me both DNSKEY records for the ZSK after I initiate the 
rollover when there should be overlap as described in Automatic DNSSEC Zone 
Signing Key rollover explained (isc.org)<https://kb.isc.org/docs/aa-00822>?

Bind 9.16.23 which seems to be the newest release provided by my distribution.  
I reviewed the ARM for notes for newer releases in the 9.16 branch and did not 
see mention of any rollover bugs or for dig.

  1.   Here is the key info from dig for ZSK key 15465 at 17:17.

# dig @localhost myexample.com DNSKEY +multi

; <<>> DiG 9.16.23-RH <<>> @localhost myexample.com DNSKEY +multi
; (2 servers found)
;; global options: +cmd
;; Got answer:
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 41895
;; flags: qr aa rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 2, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 1

;; OPT PSEUDOSECTION:
; EDNS: version: 0, flags:; udp: 1232
; COOKIE: 7c2a0e61926d2d3a010000006515fb68eef12b631ca40c20 (good)
;; QUESTION SECTION:
;myexample.com.         IN DNSKEY

;; ANSWER SECTION:
myexample.com.          3600 IN DNSKEY 257 3 13 (
                                20agIXl9sQCo00yiHHviYWZG8TvVmDoVxPJwO3mlcwxB
                                le7UNrzNQaeukC6teT4XrqYflqDxcM6d9L/mtREIKA==
                                ) ; KSK; alg = ECDSAP256SHA256 ; key id = 31296
myexample.com.          3600 IN DNSKEY 256 3 13 (
                                AlKXH5aebvboC4laAovc6wfg6uGK1uTbTqYYnhKadSq6
                                78nSI3DyM+1t91jqQ81tlBy+e3hJyKtlX/OiOhuZcA==
                                ) ; ZSK; alg = ECDSAP256SHA256 ; key id = 15465

;; Query time: 3 msec
;; SERVER: 127.0.0.1#53(127.0.0.1)
;; WHEN: Thu Sep 28 17:17:12 CDT 2023
;; MSG SIZE  rcvd: 230


  1.   Here is the info from the key as far as state goes.

# more Kmyexample.com.+013+15465.key
; This is a zone-signing key, keyid 15465, for myexample.com.
; Created: 20230928221438 (Thu Sep 28 17:14:38 2023)
; Publish: 20230928221438 (Thu Sep 28 17:14:38 2023)
; Activate: 20230928221438 (Thu Sep 28 17:14:38 2023)
; Inactive: 20231127221438 (Mon Nov 27 16:14:38 2023)
; Delete: 20231207231938 (Thu Dec  7 17:19:38 2023)
myexample.com. 3600 IN DNSKEY 256 3 13 
AlKXH5aebvboC4laAovc6wfg6uGK1uTbTqYYnhKadSq678nSI3DyM+1t 
91jqQ81tlBy+e3hJyKtlX/OiOhuZcA==

# more Kmyexample.com.+013+15465.state
; This is the state of key 15465, for myexample.com.
Algorithm: 13
Length: 256
Lifetime: 5184000
KSK: no
ZSK: yes
Generated: 20230928221438 (Thu Sep 28 17:14:38 2023)
Published: 20230928221438 (Thu Sep 28 17:14:38 2023)
Active: 20230928221438 (Thu Sep 28 17:14:38 2023)
Retired: 20231127221438 (Mon Nov 27 16:14:38 2023)
Removed: 20231207231938 (Thu Dec  7 17:19:38 2023)
DNSKEYChange: 20230928221438 (Thu Sep 28 17:14:38 2023)
ZRRSIGChange: 20230928221438 (Thu Sep 28 17:14:38 2023)
DNSKEYState: rumoured
ZRRSIGState: rumoured
GoalState: omnipresent

I suspect that the crucial detail above is "DNSKEYState: rumoured". This 
suggests that the last ZSK rollover hasn't been fully completed.

Before starting a rollover it is a good idea to make sure the ZSK that you are 
retiring is in an "omnipresent" state.


The usual reason that the key isn't in omnipresent state is because BIND is 
still waiting for the corresponding DS record to be published and available in 
the parent zone. BIND 9.16 only knows if the DS record is published if you've 
set up parental-agents, or if you've explicitly told it using rndc. (BTW BIND 
9.19 introduces new default behaviour which means you don't need to set 
parental-agents in order for it to figure this out.)


Have a look here: 
https://bind9.readthedocs.io/en/latest/chapter5.html#key-rollover


Specifically:

If setting up a parental agent is undesirable, it is also possible to tell BIND 
that the DS is published in the parent with: rndc dnssec -checkds -key 12345 
published 
dnssec.example.<https://bind9.readthedocs.io/en/latest/manpages.html#cmdoption-rndc-arg-dnssec>.
 and the DS for the predecessor key has been removed with: rndc dnssec -checkds 
-key 54321 withdrawn 
dnssec.example.<https://bind9.readthedocs.io/en/latest/manpages.html#cmdoption-rndc-arg-dnssec>.
 where 12345 and 54321 are the key tags of the successor and predecessor key, 
respectively.

Nick.


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