-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Some additional points....
On 07/29/2015 03:54 PM, s7r via bitcoin-dev wrote: > (...) > > The more people use bitcoin, the more demand we have on the market > for BTC, the higher BTC/FIAT rate will be, more people will become > interested in mining and so on. Bitcoin is not a > rich-only-private-club, it's an open, global, decentralized payment > network. The less people use it... I guess you figured it out. Yes. (...) Having some > offchain solution for small transactions would be a good idea, but > this doesn't mean we should make small transactions impossible due > to absurd fees. This is correct also. > > On 7/29/2015 8:47 PM, Raystonn . via bitcoin-dev wrote: >>> When a category of users would get priced out because of the >>> fee >> market, they would be free to use any altcoin they want. >> >> I believe that pretty well sums up where we’re headed if >> transaction rate is artificially limited, whether that be by >> maximum block size limit or something else. A fee market will >> necessarily include more than just Bitcoin. The reality is it’s >> very easy to trade value across different blockchains, and thus a >> fee market will bleed value from Bitcoin and give it to >> alternative blockchains. If Bitcoin’s blocks are at maximum >> capacity, people will exchange for something that allows them to >> transact with a lesser fee, then make the desired payment. This >> adds value to the alternative blockchain and removes it from >> Bitcoin. >> >> Anyone thinking the fee market can be restrained to Bitcoin alone >> is mistaken. >> >> >> *From:* Vali Zero via bitcoin-dev >> <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> *Sent:* Wednesday, >> July 29, 2015 7:09 AM *To:* >> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org >> <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> *Subject:* >> [bitcoin-dev] Răspuns: Personal opinion on the fee market from a >> worried local trader >> >> I am disappointed that you did not understand my point of view. >> Let me rephrase it for you, >> >> People tipping, buying 0.99$ products and gamblers that need >> Bitcoin transactions *more* than the rest of the people will >> afford the fees that establish the equilibrium between demand and >> supply of Bitcoin transactions. The people are free to use they >> money for whatever they like, but you should understand that >> Bitcoin transactions are not free. >> >> I was merely attempting to point out that spammers and gamblers >> would be the first ones that would go away. They would be free to >> spam or gamble, but they would have to pay for it. >> >> When a category of users would get priced out because of the fee >> market, they would be free to use any altcoin they want. >> >> Please understand that not everyone will leave. The more >> important players will remain, those that need it the most. The >> other players are free to use whatever altcoin they wish. >> >> >> În Miercuri, 29 Iulie 2015 16:47:57, Angel Leon >> <gubat...@gmail.com> a scris: >> >> >> "the gamblers and perhaps people transacting very low amounts. >> The people that actually need Bitcoin would remain." >> >> so people tipping, buying $0.99 products, and gamblers actually >> don't need Bitcoin. Who are you to say what people need to use >> money for? This statement goes against the freedom of >> decentralization and financial freedom Bitcoin should be able to >> provide. >> >> It's an open network and it will be used as most users see fit, >> and that requires a blocksize increase wether you like it or not, >> it's simple physics, other time wait times will become unbearable >> for those not willing to pay the high fees, if people leave, then >> it only mean bitcoins isn't useful, and if bitcoin isn't useful, >> it's worthless. >> >> >> >> http://twitter.com/gubatron >> >> On Wed, Jul 29, 2015 at 9:27 AM, Vali Zero via bitcoin-dev >> <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org >> <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>> wrote: >> >> Hello, >> >> I have been reading an argument saying that paying higher fees >> would scare Bitcoin users and they would stop using it, >> preferring bank transfers or other payment methods. This does not >> make sense for me. If some users leave, then demand for bitcoin >> transactions goes down and so do the fees. The others remain. >> >> Fee market means that an equilibrium is found between the demand >> for bitcoin transactions and the available supply (given by the >> block size). The fee is the price that finds this equilibrium. >> >> If a fee market starts to exist, the first ones to leave are the >> spammers, probably followed by the gamblers and perhaps people >> transacting very low amounts. The people that actually need >> Bitcoin would remain. >> >> Please allow this fee market to form... >> >> In the absence of a functioning fee market, I will refuse to run >> Bitcoin code that increases the block size and will do my best >> to tell everyone I know not to upgrade towards running such code. >> If Bitcoin succombs to the free stuff army, I will sell all the >> coins and leave. Nothing is for free. >> >> I apologize for any exagerations, but I just felt strongly >> towards expressing my opinion here. I'm only a local Bitcoin >> trader, computer engineer, with a reasonable understanding of >> free markets. And I'm running only one full node. >> >> Kind regards, Valentin >> >> >> _______________________________________________ bitcoin-dev >> mailing list bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org >> <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> >> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev >> >> > _______________________________________________ bitcoin-dev mailing > list bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev > - -- http://abis.io ~ "a protocol concept to enable decentralization and expansion of a giving economy, and a new social good" https://keybase.io/odinn -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJVufPFAAoJEGxwq/inSG8CBHUIAKZQaTvJToxGmEXSTckHZ2fX NEVJNbw0oebdpQU6mvYR1hjK4LE/pY+cyfTh98RxQtsIHGJqVghU/kgzP6PSyS9J NYB3HO3iz2l9rBRQCe197wfg1GlY1QhepNFofYj1k1MDIB2QCMUXhUwz7e7wncuc TESDEHH/mUqPOnWBKeEbru7gr0aLn8ltmEHXwDQdlPP9iyXGpt9oGWoP1fBYTRwg r29vW8wCYhKzbS44ovPRilGWnWhxyB/2N5Qb94JkdzWCdr98bBIZQ8eL+w64lEhv 9A8Umiu9B8c6Ch9C1d4c/ircA4MJKSroTfLh8SgkjYtdAnECAJmQ3ZcUGgyGerw= =gCvd -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ bitcoin-dev mailing list bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev