May I ask how the current payment protocol is supposed to handle salaries? I 
hope you do not assume the employee creates a payment request, since he does not
even calculate the amount. There you go where a channel I described is 
definitelly needed.

Tamas Blummer
http://bitsofproof.com

On 28.03.2014, at 12:30, Tamas Blummer <ta...@bitsofproof.com> wrote:

> Instead of a payment request and refund, businesses would actually need a 
> payment channel, that once established allows for multiple payments back and 
> forth between counterparties.
> 
> One might have a number of open channels until the business relationship is 
> assumed. The customer might decide to close the channel explicitelly once he 
> does no longer expect a payment. 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Tamás Blummer
> http://bitsofproof.com
> 
> On 28.03.2014, at 12:07, Mike Hearn <m...@plan99.net> wrote:
> 
>> Modern devices like smartphones and tablets do not have swap files. This 
>> design is chosen to ensure responsive, fluid UI that can avoid blocking on 
>> disk regardless of how much multi-tasking is done, but it creates ripples 
>> that impact everything else.
>> 
>> One implication of this is that on these devices, we cannot store all keys 
>> or transactions in memory forever. BIP 70 has an expiry field for 
>> PaymentRequests that we can use to allow us to eventually stop loading those 
>> keys into RAM - at that point payments to those keys would no longer be 
>> recognised. But there's no equivalent for refund addresses.
>> 
>> More generally, though we re-used the output structure to define the refund, 
>> we didn't (for some reason that I forgot) reuse PaymentDetails, even though 
>> the payment details for a refund are indeed PaymentDetails.
>> 
>> Though I am loathe to go back and redesign this part of BIP 70 so soon after 
>> we shipped v1, it seems to me like the refund feature may be hard to 
>> implement on phones if there's no time limit for when you can receive a 
>> refund. Otherwise a wallet has to be looking out for refunds for payments 
>> you may have made years ago. So perhaps we should add a new refund field 
>> that embeds a PaymentDetails structure instead of being just a list of 
>> outputs.
>> 
>> We could try and solve this problem some other way purely internally, by 
>> doing a kind of wallet-specific swapping process in which things like Bloom 
>> filters are calculated without all keys in them being held in memory at once 
>> (perhaps caching filters for old parts of the key chain on disk), so you can 
>> have "infinite" wallets, but eventually the huge Bloom filters that would 
>> result would hurt efficiency in other ways. So key expiry seems pretty 
>> fundamental to scalability.
>> 
>> 
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> 

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