--- Begin Message ---
Open Debate Political Forum IMHO
http://groups.google.com/group/OpenDebateForum?hl=en
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Today's topics:
* Private Jets: Good or Bad? McCain Campaign Is Confused - 7 messages, 3
authors
http://groups.google.com/group/OpenDebateForum/browse_thread/thread/70c1a80434f7b2b7?hl=en
* Surge success “beyond our wildest dreams?” - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/OpenDebateForum/browse_thread/thread/07fe405ac066b570?hl=en
* Insanity - 4 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/OpenDebateForum/browse_thread/thread/7140694fa0c9ddca?hl=en
* How reassuring - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/OpenDebateForum/browse_thread/thread/922cd2ca4cc4b114?hl=en
* New Pic of Bristol! DON’T LOOK! - 6 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/OpenDebateForum/browse_thread/thread/f276c159267120ee?hl=en
* Small Town America - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/OpenDebateForum/browse_thread/thread/765182d271eafd91?hl=en
* Hero's Song by Brendan James - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/OpenDebateForum/browse_thread/thread/55959745174f8f25?hl=en
* State paid for trip - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/OpenDebateForum/browse_thread/thread/3e642b66a0790eee?hl=en
* Iraq Today -- The forgotten war - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/OpenDebateForum/browse_thread/thread/7106f7ae6fe36166?hl=en
* Free Calls Worldwide - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/OpenDebateForum/browse_thread/thread/23c6b8d042d8dca6?hl=en
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Private Jets: Good or Bad? McCain Campaign Is Confused
http://groups.google.com/group/OpenDebateForum/browse_thread/thread/70c1a80434f7b2b7?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 7 2008 12:08 am
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Private Jets: Good or Bad? McCain Campaign Is Confused
(http://dailykos.com/hotlist/add/2008/9/6/155344/0448/main//)
by _BarbinMD_ (http://barbinmd.dailykos.com/)
Sat Sep 06, 2008 at 03:40:43 PM PDT
The McCain campaign really needs to make up their mind: private jets, good or
bad?
A line that has been getting a lot of applause for John McCain from the GOP
faithful when he's waxing poetic over his unvetted maverick choice for a
running mate is:
You know what I enjoyed the most? She took the luxury jet that was acquired
by her predecessor and sold it on eBay -- made a profit.
On a side note, naturally the line is _a lie_
(http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/9/5/112059/2716) , which probably
explains why it's so popular with
Republicans, but the truth isn't the point. The point is to paint Palin as a
reform-minded Washington outsider and all around regular gal. But now that
they have the traditional media accepting the story as Gospel, endlessly
playing loops of both McCain and Palin telling the lie, _it's announced_
(http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/business/256059.php) that:
Tucson-based Global Aircraft Solutions Inc. on Thursday delivered Alaska
Gov. Sarah Palin's new campaign plane, an Embraer 190 regional jet complete
with
the Republican ticket's campaign logo on the fuselage.
But hey, let's cut Palin some slack. After all, she's a superstar now (which
apparently is a _good thing_
(http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/7/30/135652/259) if you're a
Republican), and besides, _unlike McCain_
(http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/4/27/61228/8153/205/504245) , her spouse
doesn't have
a handy-dandy private, corporate jet for her to use.
Jesus was a community organizer and Pontius Pilate was a governor.
**************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog,
plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.
(http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)
== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 7 2008 4:00 am
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In a message dated 9/7/2008 2:09:25 AM Central Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Sat Sep 06, 2008 at 03:40:43 PM PDT
The McCain campaign really needs to make up their mind: private jets, good
or bad?
A line that has been getting a lot of applause for John McCain from the GOP
faithful when he's waxing poetic over his unvetted maverick choice for a
running mate is:
You know what I enjoyed the most? She took the luxury jet that was acquired
by her predecessor and sold it on eBay -- made a profit.
On a side note, naturally the line is _a lie_
(http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/9/5/112059/2716) , which probably
explains why it's so popular with
Republicans, but the truth isn't the point. The point is to paint Palin as a
reform-minded Washington outsider and all around regular gal. But now that
they have the traditional media accepting the story as Gospel, endlessly
playing loops of both McCain and Palin telling the lie,
She claimed she put the jet on ebay. She never claimed it sold on ebay for a
profit. The fact that the socialists/progressives have turned this issue into
a lie shows their desperation.
**************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog,
plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.
(http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)
== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 7 2008 4:47 am
From: jimstaro
predder, if You're Going To Reply, Get Your Shit Together with the
Real Facts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
On Sep 7, 7:00 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> In a message dated 9/7/2008 2:09:25 AM Central Daylight Time,
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> Sat Sep 06, 2008 at 03:40:43 PM PDT
>
> The McCain campaign really needs to make up their mind: private jets, good
> or bad?
> A line that has been getting a lot of applause for John McCain from the GOP
> faithful when he's waxing poetic over his unvetted maverick choice for a
> running mate is:
> You know what I enjoyed the most? She took the luxury jet that was acquired
> by her predecessor and sold it on eBay -- made a profit.
> On a side note, naturally the line is _a lie_
> (http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/9/5/112059/2716) , which probably
> explains why it's so popular with
> Republicans, but the truth isn't the point. The point is to paint Palin as a
> reform-minded Washington outsider and all around regular gal. But now that
> they have the traditional media accepting the story as Gospel, endlessly
> playing loops of both McCain and Palin telling the lie,
>
> She claimed she put the jet on ebay. She never claimed it sold on ebay for a
> profit. The fact that the socialists/progressives have turned this issue into
> a lie shows their desperation.
>
> **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog,
> plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.
> (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)
== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 7 2008 4:50 am
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In a message dated 9/7/2008 6:47:55 AM Central Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
predder, if You're Going To Reply, Get Your Shit Together with the
Real Facts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I gave you the facts 5 or 6 times. You are a moron, incapable of absorbing
anything that isn't Bush and America hatred. VT even explained it to you, you
are just stupid.
**************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog,
plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.
(http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)
== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 7 2008 4:58 am
From: jimstaro
No You Didn't!!!!!!!!
You Give The Bullshit Spin!!!!!
Get The Facts!!!!!!!!!
On Sep 7, 7:50 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> In a message dated 9/7/2008 6:47:55 AM Central Daylight Time,
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> predder, if You're Going To Reply, Get Your Shit Together with the
> Real Facts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> I gave you the facts 5 or 6 times. You are a moron, incapable of absorbing
> anything that isn't Bush and America hatred. VT even explained it to you, you
>
> are just stupid.
>
> **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog,
> plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.
> (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)
== 6 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 7 2008 5:04 am
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In a message dated 9/7/2008 6:59:00 AM Central Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
No You Didn't!!!!!!!!
You Give The Bullshit Spin!!!!!
Get The Facts!!!!!!!!!
I have the facts, she put the plane on ebay as she stated. You are a moron.
There are the facts.
**************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog,
plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.
(http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)
== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 7 2008 5:08 am
From: jimstaro
pred, if You're going to use The Talking points of the Day, you Had
Better Start Listening To The Speeches Both Give First!!!!!!!!!
On Sep 7, 8:04 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> In a message dated 9/7/2008 6:59:00 AM Central Daylight Time,
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> No You Didn't!!!!!!!!
>
> You Give The Bullshit Spin!!!!!
>
> Get The Facts!!!!!!!!!
>
> I have the facts, she put the plane on ebay as she stated. You are a moron.
> There are the facts.
>
> **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog,
> plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.
> (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Surge success “beyond our wildest dreams?”
http://groups.google.com/group/OpenDebateForum/browse_thread/thread/07fe405ac066b570?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 7 2008 3:28 am
From: jimstaro
They and the 'surge' bots better hope the Government gets it's act
together, the Actual Reason For The 'surge' and, Real Soon. Wgen it
goes after 'the awakening' crowd, which it already is, the Shit has
started and it won't take much to blow the Top Off Again, Blast Walls
or Not!!!!!
On Sep 7, 2:42 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> _Surge success “beyond our wildest dreams?”_
> (http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/09/06/surge-success-beyond-our-wil...)
> Posted: 06 Sep 2008 02:30 PM CDT
>
> (http://static.crooksandliars.com/2008/09/sectarian-iraq.JPG)
> (http://static.crooksandliars.com/2008/09/sectarian-iraq.JPG) John McCain
> has made much
> of how he was correct about the Surge in Iraq when his opponent was saying it
> wouldn’t work. Barack Obama has been moving gradually further towards McCain’
> s position, propelled there by a narrative that questions his original
> judgement in the face of drastic cuts in Iraqi violence which have popularly
> been
> ascribed to the Surge. He’s now at the point of saying it _“succeeded beyond
> our wildest dreams.”_
> (http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/09/04/obama-surge-succeeded-beyond-...)
> But how close to reality are McCain and Obama’s positions? Well, for a start
> it’s unclear that it’s actually the Surge that has been instrumental in
> lowering Iraqi violence (to _parity with some of the world’s bloodiest
> conflicts_
> (http://www.juancole.com/2008/09/us-soldier-dies-bombings-in-mosul.html)
> instead of being in a class of its own). The Sunni Awakening and a ceasefire
> by
> the Shiite Sadrist movement must also take a large part of the credit and,
> despite McCain’s _attempt at rewriting history_
> (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ilan-goldenberg/not-a-gaffe-a-fundaemtn...) ,
> both pre-dated the
> Surge. Indeed, _even General Petraeus admits_
> (http://thinkprogress.org/2008/08/25/petraeus-mccain-victory/) the
> possibility that, due to these entirely
> local developments, violence in Iraq might have fallen just as much even
> without the Surge.
> Paying the Awakening movement some $30 million a month to not attack US
> troops wasn’t originally a part of the Surge plan that McCain backed and it’s
>
> unlikely he would have supported such a move in any case. John McCain has
> made
> much of Barack Obama’s supposed wish for “appeasement” of terrorists in
> negotiating with Iran or Hamas - how much worse is it then to bring
> terrorists
> onto the payroll? Many of the Awakening’s so-called Sons of Iraq were
> _previously members of the insurgency_
> (http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/08/06/sons_of_iraq/) .
> Now that both Maliki and the established Sunni political elite feel they are
> becoming a threat to their Green Zone based power, while the US is stopping
> bribing them not to attack US forces, the Awakening is in danger of being
> _dropped like a hot potato_
> (http://abuaardvark.typepad.com/abuaardvark/2008/08/it-hit-it-while.html) -
> and at least a portion of the 100,000 strong movement
> will return to violence.
> Likewise, the Sadrist movement has been described as a terrorist outfit by
> American hawks yet General Petraeus was _generous in his praise of Sadr_
> (http://www.robertdreyfuss.com/blog/2007/12/petraeus_praises_sadr.html) when
> he
> needed the ceasefire renewed. Is Petraeus an appeaser too?
> Then there’s the purpose of the Surge - which _wasn’t just to reduce
> violence_ (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22202822/) but also to give a window
> of
> opportunity for Iraqi reconcilliation. That simply hasn’t happened. No oil
> law
> has yet been passed and if the Kurds get their way _it never will be_
> (http://www.cfr.org/publication/13298/why_iraqis_cannot_agree_on_an_oi...) .
> No
> law on provincial elections has yet been passed and it’s now unlikely it
> will be before the end of the year. The Powers That be intend using that
> haitus
> to _make sure the Powers That Aren’t stay that way_
> (http://abumuqawama.blogspot.com/2008/08/dr-irack-is-back-but-election...)
> and this is
> another possible flashpoint for renewed violence. De’baathification is
> stalled and
> fairly _much window dressing in any case_
> (http://cernigsnewshog.blogspot.com/2008/01/more-on-debaathification.html) -
> and the head of the committee that
> oversees it has been arrested on suspicion of involvement with Shiite terror
> groups. (Which, if true, puts McCain and his top foreign policy adviser just
> _one degree of separation_
> (http://www.newshoggers.com/blog/2008/08/mccains-dangero.html) away from
> murderers of US troops.) The Sadrists are reorganising
> and probably biding their time. Goodly portions of the Awakening, as we’ve
> seen, are threatening a return to insurgency.
> The latest news is that even the ruling powers in Iraq are in _an armed
> face-off_ (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/sep/03/iraq.kurds) . Iraqi
> troops
> and Kurdish peshmerga forces are bracing for conflict in the disputed city of
> Khanaqin, in Diyala province. “The Iraqi army still wants to enter, and the
> peshmerga is present,” said Ibrahim Bajelani, a Kurd who heads the provincial
> council. “Everyone is on edge. If the Iraqi army tries to enter without
> prior agreement, we can’t be held responsible for the consequences.”
> This isn’t reconciliation. Iraq is looking more and more like a bad spaghetti
> western, everyone in a circle, hands twitching, waiting for someone to blink
> - and _Maliki seems to think he’s Clint Eastwood._
> (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/sep/05/iraq.middleeast)
> Developing tensions between Iraq
> ’s religious and ethnic groups are actually being fuelled by Maliki, who
> seems to relish his new-found perception of himself as a _“strongman”
> figure_
> (http://abumuqawama.blogspot.com/2008/09/malki-strongman.html) . As a
> consequence, the White House is ready to accept military recommendation that
> _significant troop withdrawals be paused until early 2009_
> (http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/09/05/africa/ME-Iraq-Slowing-Down...) ,
> despite the possibility of
> this hurting Republicans at the polls, as a hedge against the very real
> threat of Iraq exploding again.
> So, to recap - the Surge didn’t succeed in reducing violence alone, not even
> by half; it didn’t help one iota in repairing the divisions between Iraqis
> and instead various Iraqis including the Prime Minister took the opportunity
> to
> widen those divisions (and by the way, allegations that the US spied on
> Maliki are _unlikely to put him in a mood to listen to the White House_
> (http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSL510482820080906) ) … now it looks
> increasingly likely that violence will explode again.
> Obama should have stuck to his guns and media pressure be damned.
>
> Jesus was a community organizer and Pontius Pilate was a governor.
>
> **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog,
> plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.
> (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Insanity
http://groups.google.com/group/OpenDebateForum/browse_thread/thread/7140694fa0c9ddca?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 7 2008 4:17 am
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In a message dated 9/7/2008 2:07:50 AM Central Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Insanity (http://dailykos.com/hotlist/add/2008/9/6/21102/36119/main//)
by _DarkSyde_ (http://darksyde.dailykos.com/)
Sat Sep 06, 2008 at 06:10:44 PM PDT
Can someone tell me what it is conservatives are so afraid will happen if
Obama wins? They sure sound angry and terrified about the prospect, but why?
Could it be because he sat in a white people hating church for 22 years, G-d
damning America? Could it be because he's a wimp that won't defend America?
Could it be because he is afraid of God and guns? Or could it be that every
negro politician for centuries has turned his city, his state, or his nation
into a cesspool, proving the negro unfit for anything more than following
orders?
**************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog,
plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.
(http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)
== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 7 2008 4:42 am
From: jimstaro
"Could it be because he sat in a white people hating church for 22
years,"
One, you sick little Twerp that Isn't True!!!!
Two, how Many Years have You Sat in a Black Hating Church, which Is
True, Church or No Church, You sorry excuse for a Human!!!!!!!!
On Sep 7, 7:17 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> In a message dated 9/7/2008 2:07:50 AM Central Daylight Time,
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> Insanity (http://dailykos.com/hotlist/add/2008/9/6/21102/36119/main//)
> by _DarkSyde_ (http://darksyde.dailykos.com/)
> Sat Sep 06, 2008 at 06:10:44 PM PDT
>
> Can someone tell me what it is conservatives are so afraid will happen if
> Obama wins? They sure sound angry and terrified about the prospect, but why?
>
> Could it be because he sat in a white people hating church for 22 years, G-d
> damning America? Could it be because he's a wimp that won't defend America?
> Could it be because he is afraid of God and guns? Or could it be that every
> negro politician for centuries has turned his city, his state, or his nation
> into a cesspool, proving the negro unfit for anything more than following
> orders?
>
> **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog,
> plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.
> (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)
== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 7 2008 4:53 am
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In a message dated 9/7/2008 6:42:38 AM Central Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
"Could it be because he sat in a white people hating church for 22
years,"
One, you sick little Twerp that Isn't True!!!!
Two, how Many Years have You Sat in a Black Hating Church, which Is
True, Church or No Church, You sorry excuse for a Human!!!!!!!!
I'm not running for President. And I don't hate black people, I just don't
think they have the intelligence to lead. Obamba is running for President, and
he did sit and approve of his church policy of hating white people and hating
America.
**************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog,
plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.
(http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)
== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 7 2008 4:57 am
From: jimstaro
Yes You Do!!!!
On Sep 7, 7:53 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> In a message dated 9/7/2008 6:42:38 AM Central Daylight Time,
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> "Could it be because he sat in a white people hating church for 22
> years,"
>
> One, you sick little Twerp that Isn't True!!!!
>
> Two, how Many Years have You Sat in a Black Hating Church, which Is
> True, Church or No Church, You sorry excuse for a Human!!!!!!!!
>
> I'm not running for President. And I don't hate black people, I just don't
> think they have the intelligence to lead. Obamba is running for President,
> and
> he did sit and approve of his church policy of hating white people and hating
> America.
>
> **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog,
> plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.
> (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)
==============================================================================
TOPIC: How reassuring
http://groups.google.com/group/OpenDebateForum/browse_thread/thread/922cd2ca4cc4b114?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 7 2008 4:48 am
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In a message dated 9/6/2008 7:25:10 PM Central Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Oh and little blue, Everytime you or the other clowns, like lew, post
up these it just Reminds Everyone about the Corrupt GOP's and the
Numbers of Them, especially over these last years, and the Preachers
of the religious? wingnuts, so called christians? who sound Exactly
like the fundies of the al Qaeda's of this world!!!!!
So please keep 'Bringin 'em On'!!!!!!
Would that be the hate whitey and God damn America preachers that Obamba
endorses thru his 22 year attendance?
**************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog,
plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.
(http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 7 2008 5:01 am
From: jimstaro
"Would that be the hate whitey and God damn America preachers that
Obamba
endorses thru his 22 year attendance?"
You to pedder, just keep 'Bringing 'em On!!!
On Sep 7, 7:48 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> In a message dated 9/6/2008 7:25:10 PM Central Daylight Time,
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> Oh and little blue, Everytime you or the other clowns, like lew, post
> up these it just Reminds Everyone about the Corrupt GOP's and the
> Numbers of Them, especially over these last years, and the Preachers
> of the religious? wingnuts, so called christians? who sound Exactly
> like the fundies of the al Qaeda's of this world!!!!!
>
> So please keep 'Bringin 'em On'!!!!!!
>
> Would that be the hate whitey and God damn America preachers that Obamba
> endorses thru his 22 year attendance?
>
> **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog,
> plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.
> (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)
==============================================================================
TOPIC: New Pic of Bristol! DON’T LOOK!
http://groups.google.com/group/OpenDebateForum/browse_thread/thread/f276c159267120ee?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 7 2008 4:53 am
From: James
Hat tip to Mudflats reader Drew Brown for this TIVO capture.
http://mudflats.wordpress.com/2008/09/06/new-pic-of-bristol-dont-look/
You looked, didn’t you. So did I. What do we make of that?
How do we sort out the rumor, policy issues, competence issues,
judgement issues and gossip? Where do the lines blur between them? Is
it fair to talk about her pregnant teen daughter Bristol? Is it fair to
ask questions about her marital fidelity, or if she is Trig’s real
mother? When does gossip become a rumor, and rumor become plausible,
and plausible rumor become verified fact? These questions are good
because they make us at least stop and examine how the media does
business, and how we judge our political candidates, and ultimately
where we place the only real power we have - our vote.
Is Bristol fair game? Our first instinct is probably, no. Family is
off limits. But what happens when family matters demonstrate decision
making ability, criteria for judgment, and how the candidate will enact
potential policy decisions? That changes things.
Sarah Palin has repeatedly said that having her baby is Bristol’s ‘decision’.
And isn’t Bristol lucky to have
a decision, and a supportive family, and someone who wants to marry
her, and parents who are well-off and willing to help her, and the help
of a nanny. Yes, she is. And, frankly, it would be a mistake to
question the family’s decision because it is their decision, and that’s
the point. The crux of this issue is that Palin believes other girls
like Bristol should have no decision - not in the
case of rape, or incest, or both. Not if you’re 12 or 20 or 55, rich or
poor, married or alone, sick or well, able or disabled.
Palin believes her daughter should not have had a
choice, even if she had been raped, even if she had been 12, and even
if she had been a victim of incest, or all three. And she doesn’t think
any other family should have a choice either. Really. Entitled to her
opinion? Yes. Will mainstream America agree? Not if you believe the
statistics.
So, given the fact that teens will be teens, and subject to the
potential of hormone-induced bad judgment, what is Palin’s solution?
Surely, we all want to prevent as many unwanted pregnancies as
possible. Right now, because of Roe v. Wade, choice is the law. We know
that all across the country, teenage girls, like her daughter, are
getting pregnant by accident and having legal abortions. What would
Palin propose to do about it? Something that doesn’t work. Her solution
is abstinence only. No sex education. No information. No birth control.
Just say no. She, herself, can see in a real and clear way, that this
doesn’t work. Just ask Bristol. And just ask Sarah, who was pregnant
when she married Todd.
So what does all this this tell us? She makes important policy
decisions based on religious conviction. She sticks with failed policy,
even when the failure is obvious and hard-hitting. She believes in
taking away currently available decisions for all of America, despite
the fact that the majority of Americans oppose it. Qualities we want in
a president?
And yes, I say president, and not vice president. Anyone accepting
the role of Vice President stands a very real chance of becoming
president by succession. The odds are better than 30%.
When looking at the scandalous pictures, and reading the scads of
gossip that is bubbling up in Alaska and wending its circuitous way
toward main stream media coverage, we need to ask ourselves how they
may demonstrate Palin’s stated policy decisions, decision making
ability and the criteria she uses to make them. And we will, no doubt,
get caught up in the personal scandals, because we’re human. But let’s
watch what else they teach us.
And just for good measure, what does John McCain feel about this?
The Associated Press reported that Sen. John McCain
(Ariz.), the presumptive Republican presidential nominee, opposed
funding to prevent teen pregnancies, a position that Palin also took as
governor. “The explicit sex-ed programs will not find my support,” she
wrote in a 2006 questionnaire distributed among gubernatorial
candidates.Reporters asked McCain in November 2007 whether he
supported grants for sex education in the United States, whether such
programs should include directions for using contraceptives or whether
he supports President Bush’s policy of promoting abstinence.
“Ahhh, I think I support the president’s policy,” McCain said.
Ahhhhh, I think we’re in trouble.
Do We Need Change, You're Damn Right We Do, And The World Needs Us To Change,
Now!!
== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 7 2008 4:58 am
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In a message dated 9/7/2008 6:54:27 AM Central Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Is Bristol fair game? Our first instinct is probably, no. Family is off
limits. But what happens when family matters demonstrate decision making
ability,
criteria for judgment, and how the candidate will enact potential policy
decisions? That changes things.
This attacking Palin's kid is costing you morons votes. Chances are Obamba's
daughters will be crack ho's, that is the nature of black culture. Should
the GOP attack them as future crack ho's it would cost them votes. Dems should
shut up about the Palin children.
**************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog,
plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.
(http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)
== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 7 2008 5:03 am
From: jimstaro
prdder, One Thing I Know, actually add it to the many others, You're
To Dumb to Be a Speed Reader!!!
Read Before You Reply with those empty thoughts that have no where to
collect in that empty head!!!!
On Sep 7, 7:58 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> In a message dated 9/7/2008 6:54:27 AM Central Daylight Time,
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> Is Bristol fair game? Our first instinct is probably, no. Family is off
> limits. But what happens when family matters demonstrate decision making
> ability,
> criteria for judgment, and how the candidate will enact potential policy
> decisions? That changes things.
>
> This attacking Palin's kid is costing you morons votes. Chances are Obamba's
> daughters will be crack ho's, that is the nature of black culture. Should
> the GOP attack them as future crack ho's it would cost them votes. Dems
> should
> shut up about the Palin children.
>
> **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog,
> plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.
> (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)
== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 7 2008 5:06 am
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In a message dated 9/7/2008 7:03:48 AM Central Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
prdder, One Thing I Know, actually add it to the many others, You're
To Dumb to Be a Speed Reader!!!
Read Before You Reply with those empty thoughts that have no where to
collect in that empty head!!!!
I read it starman, you pukes are using the kid to bash conservative ideals
regarding choice. Make your argument without using a child.
**************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog,
plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.
(http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)
== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 7 2008 5:10 am
From: jimstaro
Ain't No Way, I just sent it and You Were Replying To Other E's, start
Learning How This tech. Works, You get Caught In your own Idiotic Crap
on a Regular Basis, Now Go Back And READ!!!!!!!!
On Sep 7, 8:06 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> In a message dated 9/7/2008 7:03:48 AM Central Daylight Time,
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> prdder, One Thing I Know, actually add it to the many others, You're
> To Dumb to Be a Speed Reader!!!
>
> Read Before You Reply with those empty thoughts that have no where to
> collect in that empty head!!!!
>
> I read it starman, you pukes are using the kid to bash conservative ideals
> regarding choice. Make your argument without using a child.
>
> **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog,
> plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.
> (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)
== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 7 2008 5:14 am
From: jimstaro
"conservative ideals regarding choice."
According to her parents She Choose to keep the Child, also Choose to
Marry the Father of!!
And According to You, You Don't want The Choice To own Guns taken
away, which Nobody is trying to Do!!
Now, Learn The Meaning Of 'Choice' and while you're at it 'Freedom
To'!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
On Sep 7, 8:06 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> In a message dated 9/7/2008 7:03:48 AM Central Daylight Time,
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> prdder, One Thing I Know, actually add it to the many others, You're
> To Dumb to Be a Speed Reader!!!
>
> Read Before You Reply with those empty thoughts that have no where to
> collect in that empty head!!!!
>
> I read it starman, you pukes are using the kid to bash conservative ideals
> regarding choice. Make your argument without using a child.
>
> **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog,
> plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.
> (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Small Town America
http://groups.google.com/group/OpenDebateForum/browse_thread/thread/765182d271eafd91?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 7 2008 5:50 am
From: James
Defined by the GOP thinking?, or lack there of!!
http://www.comedycentral.com/videos/index.jhtml?videoId=184114
Do We Need Change, You're Damn Right We Do, And The World Needs Us To Change,
Now!!
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Hero's Song by Brendan James
http://groups.google.com/group/OpenDebateForum/browse_thread/thread/55959745174f8f25?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 7 2008 6:22 am
From: James
Here I am
In the desert again
A compass and a weapon
A lost American
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdCm0e9ru6I
Do We Need Change, You're Damn Right We Do, And The World Needs Us To Change,
Now!!
==============================================================================
TOPIC: State paid for trip
http://groups.google.com/group/OpenDebateForum/browse_thread/thread/3e642b66a0790eee?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 7 2008 6:36 am
From: James
when Palin told students to pray for pipelineGov. Sarah Palin used state funds
in June when
she traveled from Juneau to Wasilla to speak to graduating evangelical
students and urge them to fan out through Alaska "to make sure God's
will be done here."
SNIP Read Rest Here: http://www.adn.com/sarah-palin/story/518522.html
Do We Need Change, You're Damn Right We Do, And The World Needs Us To Change,
Now!!
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Iraq Today -- The forgotten war
http://groups.google.com/group/OpenDebateForum/browse_thread/thread/7106f7ae6fe36166?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 7 2008 7:36 am
From: James
The corporate media in the
U.S. long ago pushed Iraq into the background. Americans have a false
impression of the situation there because most of the violence and
political turmoil is never reported here. So here's my roundup of news
from Iraq this Sunday. (Like many diaries, this is crossposted at our
own blog on Iraq. There's a long excerpt from the Iraqi Aswat al-Iraq
news service; that's okay with them, so please don't call the Kos
police.)
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/9/7/93733/39994/17/589837
Reported Security Incidents
Baghdad
Roadside bomb attack on police patrol on Palestine St. injures 3 police, 2
civilians.
AP also reports a second blast an hour later on Mohammed al-Qassim Highway
wound 3 police.
VoI reports three attacks on police, injuring a total of 10 people.
One of the locations is identified as Beirut square, which is on
Palestine St., so that probably corresponds to the first incident
identified by AP. I can't match the other two locations to the other
incident reported by AP, however. One is identified as al-Zafaraniya,
and one as near al-Shaab playground. Reuters reports two bombs on Palestine
St., one in Zaafaraniya, and one in Zayouna.
Al-Shaab stadium is two blocks from Palestine St., so that could be the
second bomb Reuters reports on Palestine St. My best guess is that
there were in fact 4 bomb attacks altogether. And indeed, Xinhua also reports
a total of 4 attacks,
with a total of 13 wounded. They also add the detail that the
Palestine St. bombing was near the Turkmen social club, and was not in
fact an attack on police. I went through this exercise to demonstrate
how incomplete and inaccurate the information we get from Iraq really
is. Americans who depend on the Associated Press would believe there
were only two attacks in Baghdad today; but Chinese and British
audiences will know that there were at least four.
Basra
Now this is odd. Today,
joint forces from the army and police conducted raid-and-search
campaigns in eastern and northern Basra, during which they found an
unmanned reconnaissance plane in a good a condition in an uninhabited
area in al-Salihiya, northeast of Shatt al-Arab. Did insurgents
capture a U.S. craft, or somehow obtain a surveillance drone in another
way? No explanation is given. Perhaps it merely crashed and the
security forces recovered it.
Kut
An unidentified man is assassinated at a taxi terminal.
This dispatch is confusing. At one point it says the taxi terminal
was in central Kut; then it says the man was "about to take a cab home
in the district of Sheikh Saad, 55 km south of Kut." Perhaps it means
that was his destination.
Other News of the Day
An industrial accident in Karbala sends 52 workers to the hospital as chlorine
leaks at a bottling plant.
Southern Arab Tribal Council, meeting in Basra, calls for firing of the
Ministers of Trade and Electricity.
It is of note that the government can't even satisfy its own base in
the south with regard to basic services; while the situation in the
Sunni Arab areas is even worse. Yet the government is sitting on almost
a hundred billion dollars in surplus oil revenues. -- C Excerpt:
BASRA, Sept. 7 (VOI) – The Southern Arab Tribal Council, in a
conference held on Sunday in Basra province, called for sacking the
ministers of trade and electricity for their "slackness to do their
jobs" in a way corresponding with the citizens' needs.
"The trade ministry has caused several harms to Iraqi citizens by
trimming the items on the ration cards, let alone the bad quality of
the all imported items," Sheikh Muhammad al-Zidawi, the council
secretary-general, told Aswat al-Iraq – Voices of Iraq – (VOI). "As for
the electricity ministry, its failure to handle the power crisis was
more than clear. Despite the ministry's promises to tackle the problem,
matters have grown even worse," he said.
Zidawi called for channeling Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki's grant
for the reconstruction of Basra, which coincided with the Saulat
al-Forsan (Knights' Assault) security plan, into the electricity sector.
A committee on reconstruction of Basra province was formed under
Minister of State for Parliament Affairs, Safaa al-Din al-Safi,
coinciding with the beginning of Operation Saulat al-Forsan, and was
assigned to spend $100 million for enhancing services and
reconstruction efforts in the oil-rich port city.
Zidawi noted that the conferees also rejected the Iraqi-U.S.
long-term security agreement and called for referring it to parliament
before signing it to consider it thoroughly.
Iraq Finance Minister Bayan Jabr Solagh is in Kuwait to discuss Iraq paying
compensation for the 1990 invasion.
Iraq is already required to pay into a compensation fund; this article
makes it appear that Solagh is going to Kuwait to ask it to forgo part
of what is owed. Given the surplus alluded to above, I'm not sure what
grounds he would have for such a request.
Iraqi government newspaper Al-Sabah reports that U.S. troops will withdraw from
Baghdad in June 2009.
I'm linking to Xinhua's English-language report on this. However, it
is of course conditional. This actually appears to represent the Iraqi
government's position in the still contentious negotiations over the
Status of Forces Agreement. I cannot imagine that Bush would sign an
agreement as described below, since it would undercut much of the
rationale for the McCain campaign. Excerpt:
BAGHDAD, Sept. 7 (Xinhua) -- U.S. troops will withdraw from Baghdad
streets to bases out of the city by the end of June 2009, leaving the
capital security file under the control of Iraqi security forces, Iraqi
official newspaper reported on Sunday. "Some of U.S. military units
would start pull out from Baghdad by February next year, and it is
hoped that the troops would fulfill withdrawal from the capital before
July," the state-run al-Sabah newspaper quoted well-informed source as
saying.
The troops pull out will depend on security circumstances on the
ground, the newspaper said, adding that those troops would be ready to
support Iraqi security forces in Baghdad if the government of Prime
Minister Nuri al-Maliki request.
The newspaper also said its source revealed that there is an article
within the long-awaited security agreement between Baghdad and
Washington saying the U.S. combat troops would withdraw to bases
outside cities and villages in all over Iraq no later than June 30,
2009, unless being asked otherwise by the Iraqi government. The whole
U.S. combat troops would withdraw from the Iraqi soil at the end of
2011, the source said.
Al-Sabah also quoted Hameed Ma'lla, a lawmaker in the Shiite leading
bloc, as saying that Baghdad is waiting for the answer of the U.S.
government during the coming 48 hours about the Iraqi version of the
draft security agreement.
Afghanistan Update
Two suicide bombers attack Kandahar police HQ,
reports differ on total casualties, either 2 or 6 police officers
killed, between 15 and 30 people injured. DPA also provides a roundup
of other violence around the country.
Quote of the Day
We've already spent $600 billion on the Iraq war. We're running now
at a rate of $3 billion a week. The members of our volunteer military
are on their third or fourth year-long tours. Our military is broken
and our budget deficits are astronomical. The loss of American lives is
over 4,000 with an uncountable number wounded physically and
psychologically.
Any American who feels that we should "stay the course" must realize
that there is no way to sustain military operations in Iraq without
them putting their own blood and money in the game. This would require
our young people to join the Army and Marines. We'd have to buy war
bonds and substantially increase taxes to stop spending money that we
don't have. I'm convinced that this would result in a full loss of will
by the American people before we achieve any so-called victory.
If Americans who support this war aren't willing to put their own
bodies where their rhetoric is, there can be no sustainability. If
you're not using your own product, why should I buy what you're
selling?
John Bruhns
Do We Need Change, You're Damn Right We Do, And The World Needs Us To Change,
Now!!
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Free Calls Worldwide
http://groups.google.com/group/OpenDebateForum/browse_thread/thread/23c6b8d042d8dca6?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 7 2008 8:41 am
From: "Mary Savelingon"
Free Calls Worldwide
Mobile VoIP Calls Free Worldwide Ultra Low Rates to all Countries
http://www.attphone.co.cc/
==============================================================================
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Open
Debate Political Forum IMHO"
group.
To post to this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit
http://groups.google.com/group/OpenDebateForum?hl=en
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To change the way you get mail from this group, visit:
http://groups.google.com/group/OpenDebateForum/subscribe?hl=en
To report abuse, send email explaining the problem to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
==============================================================================
Google Groups: http://groups.google.com?hl=en
--- End Message ---
