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Today's Topics:
1. ewes with broken legs (Carol J. Elkins)
2. Personal Standards (Barb Lee)
3. RE: Personal Standards (Johnson, Oneta)
4. Facial Markings (Barb Lee)
5. RE: Facial Markings (William Buchanan)
6. Merck Veterinary Manual (Susan Smith)
7. Facial Markings (Barb Lee)
8. RE: Personal Standards (Barb Lee)
9. RE: Facial Markings (Susan Smith)
10. Re: Facial Markings ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
11. Re: Facial Markings (Barb Lee)
12. Re: Re: [blackbelly] Facial Markings - LINKS ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Message: 1
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Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 12:54:15 -0700
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Hi John,
You can't be serious! I thought my vet topped the expensive chart. How much was YOUR cast? (Gads, I might have reason to think less poorly of my vet!)
Your poor ewe--hanging upside down with a broken leg! She must have been in great pain. Did your vet put the aluminum "walking splint" outside of the cast?
My ewe just drags her leg--even with the aluminum support she will not walk on it. I've had all of the ewes confined in a small corral ever since that ewe broke her leg. I don't want her having to keep up with everyone and thought that once she has her lambs she will probably move more at her own pace and be content with her babies while the flock moves farther away. Hopefully the remainder of the ewes will finish lambing in a week and I can let everyone out of the corral. They are bored.
Carol
At 12:45 PM 12/16/2004 -0600, you wrote:
My conclusions thus far are that 1) we need to beware of trees with low forks, 2) Colorado vets are less expensive that Baldwin County Alabama vets, and 3) the price of lamb is going up every day.
Message: 2
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Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 12:49:02 -0800
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I was perusing the William K. Kruesi book, "The Sheep Raiser's Manual" the other night and settled on the part about performance testing. This led me to an interesting idea.
Performance testing appears to be done in a university setting and while I can see where obtaining performance tested rams might be of enormous value to commercial producers, it probably does little to reflect how a sire or dam will perform in the model in which we choose to raise our small farm flocks. A ram on a concentrate ration is not likely to perform the same if he is suddenly shifted to a forage-based model, and so forth. This is certainly true for cattle - a heavy grain-consuming sire may fall apart on grass. The average small-flock shepherd probably needs to look at the performance of animals raised under similar circumstances to his own to be able to determine how they will perform for him or her.
All that aside, I got to thinking about the things that have become important to me over the last year, as my interest in producing high quality American Blackbellies for breeding increases. Things as recently covered as the thread on fragile legs. My vet says the only time he's ever seen blackbellies is for fatal parasite loads and broken legs. I've always regarded a good front end as a high priority item, but now "bone" has shifted into focus. "Bone," the circumference of the front cannon bone, has in recent years become a powerful focus of quality in the horse world. Many breeds, in the name of "refinement" have bred the bone out of horses' legs, predisposing them to all sorts of lamenesses. Sheep don't need to perform like horses, but it's a cinch that good, strong legbones are pretty important in highly active and acrobatic sheep!
So what I've decided to do, is sit down with pencil and paper and create a chart for myself of all the characteristics that are becoming more and more important to me as I strive to improve the quality of my flock. I will assign a numeric value to each characteristic, based on my perception of its relative importance, and end up with my own "performance test" score. Rather than just concentrating on markings, horns, etc., I will have a very complete judging sheet of every one of my animals over time. Entries will be in pencil, as their history unfolds, particularly in the realm of productivity and the repetition of good or bad or mediocre traits in subsequent generations of offspring. I'll end up with a score that will really help me make those hard culling decisions, and it will be a bare faced exposure of my stock to potential buyers of future breeding sheep.
This may sound nuts to some people. But I can assure you, as I search for my ideal stock, my perceptions of what is and is not important are gaining momentum, and once I have a solid base of breeding stock, I expect culling decisions made on gross insufficiencies at the beginning, leading to split-hair decisions in the future. I think a chart like this, where I can look back on all the offspring of a given line and the repetitive occurrence of desirable/undesirable traits, is going to give me a powerful tool for selection. At some point my eye will be well enough calibrated to select automatically, but that leaves me with no historic footprint of the performance of my animals, to present to future buyers.
So I'm going to come up with this chart over this weekend, and my sheep are going to be seeing a lot of me. I'm not suggesting this idea for anyone else to adopt. It's just a ramble-on, something to share with the list while I'm in a writing mood.
Take care everyone, Barb L.
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Subject: RE: [blackbelly] Personal Standards
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 15:10:57 -0600
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In the last few months my ram has gotten a bit aggressive. I can smack him on the butt and he will go away and do his own thing. He is apx 2. I have had people tell me I need to get rid of him and start over. I believe he has many years of good breeding to do so why. He is a perfect specimen of a horned barbado. His horns curl back away from his face. He had great black points. He has good bone and build. He passes his good quality on to my ewes lambs and they are easy to handle. What is something that would make a breeder drop their ram and get another one. I had planned on keeping him 5 yrs or even longer as long as he stays fertile and takes care of his herd. He watches the dogs, gets along with the horses and cats, and is a very easy keeper. What does others do. oj
-----Original Message----- From: Barb Lee [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 2:49 PM To: blackbelly@lists.coyotenet.net Subject: [blackbelly] Personal Standards
I was perusing the William K. Kruesi book, "The Sheep Raiser's Manual" the other night and settled on the part about performance testing. This led me to an interesting idea.
Performance testing appears to be done in a university setting and while I can see where obtaining performance tested rams might be of enormous value to commercial producers, it probably does little to reflect how a sire or dam will perform in the model in which we choose to raise our small farm flocks. A ram on a concentrate ration is not likely to perform the same if he is suddenly shifted to a forage-based model, and so forth. This is certainly true for cattle - a heavy grain-consuming sire may fall apart on grass. The average small-flock shepherd probably needs to look at the performance of animals raised under similar circumstances to his own to be able to determine how they will perform for him or her.
All that aside, I got to thinking about the things that have become important to me over the last year, as my interest in producing high quality American Blackbellies for breeding increases. Things as recently covered as the thread on fragile legs. My vet says the only time he's ever seen blackbellies is for fatal parasite loads and broken legs. I've always regarded a good front end as a high priority item, but now "bone" has shifted into focus. "Bone," the circumference of the front cannon bone, has in recent years become a powerful focus of quality in the horse world. Many breeds, in the name of "refinement" have bred the bone out of horses' legs, predisposing them to all sorts of lamenesses. Sheep don't need to perform like horses, but it's a cinch that good, strong legbones are pretty important in highly active and acrobatic sheep!
So what I've decided to do, is sit down with pencil and paper and create a chart for myself of all the characteristics that are becoming more and more important to me as I strive to improve the quality of my flock. I will assign a numeric value to each characteristic, based on my perception of its relative importance, and end up with my own "performance test" score. Rather than just concentrating on markings, horns, etc., I will have a very complete judging sheet of every one of my animals over time. Entries will be in pencil, as their history unfolds, particularly in the realm of productivity and the repetition of good or bad or mediocre traits in subsequent generations of offspring. I'll end up with a score that will really help me make those hard culling decisions, and it will be a bare faced exposure of my stock to potential buyers of future breeding sheep.
This may sound nuts to some people. But I can assure you, as I search for my ideal stock, my perceptions of what is and is not important are gaining momentum, and once I have a solid base of breeding stock, I expect culling decisions made on gross insufficiencies at the beginning, leading to split-hair decisions in the future. I think a chart like this, where I can look back on all the offspring of a given line and the repetitive occurrence of desirable/undesirable traits, is going to give me a powerful tool for selection. At some point my eye will be well enough calibrated to select automatically, but that leaves me with no historic footprint of the performance of my animals, to present to future buyers.
So I'm going to come up with this chart over this weekend, and my sheep are going to be seeing a lot of me. I'm not suggesting this idea for anyone else to adopt. It's just a ramble-on, something to share with the list while I'm in a writing mood.
Take care everyone, Barb L.
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Message: 4
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From: "Barb Lee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 13:47:32 -0800
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Subject: [blackbelly] Facial Markings
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Besides the black markings above the eyes, does anybody have, or know of, sheep with a black stripe from the eye to the nose?
Thanks!
Barb Lee
Message: 5
From: "William Buchanan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Subject: RE: [blackbelly] Facial Markings
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 17:19:57 -0600
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I'm not sure about "eye to nose" marking, but I have several that have the "above eye" line that curves down and connects to the "jaw" line. I prefer that marking to any other.
Chris B.
-----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Barb Lee Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 3:48 PM To: blackbelly@lists.coyotenet.net Subject: [blackbelly] Facial Markings
Besides the black markings above the eyes, does anybody have, or know of, sheep with a black stripe from the eye to the nose?
Thanks!
Barb Lee
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Message: 6
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Subject: [blackbelly] Merck Veterinary Manual
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Carol, I have to thank you for recommending the light reading book Merck Veterinary Manual. I haven't heard some of these words and terms since I was a Tech at MSU. Funny how some things never change, I still can't pronounce some of the words but I learned fast at MSU what I was supposed to do to avoid what the word meant. This book is a great addition to my library, still waiting for the others to get here that you recommended. A little light reading tonight. Thanks again, Susan
Susan Smith Sandoah Achers www.sandoahachers.com American Blackbelly Sheep Barbado Sheep Painted Desert Sheep Ponies and Pigeons
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Message: 7
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Subject: [blackbelly] Facial Markings
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Chris, Any chance of posting a pic of those markings somewhere??? If you haven't got a site, you could send pics to me and I could post them on my PictureTrail site. Sounds fascinating!
Thanks! Barb
Message: 8
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Subject: RE: [blackbelly] Personal Standards
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 16:04:55 -0800
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>He is a perfect specimen of a horned Barbado.
Oneta, Send him to me, I've got a job for him! <VBG!>
Hey, let's ask Mary Swindell! Mary, how did your experiment with ram shields go?
Barb L.
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Subject: RE: [blackbelly] Facial Markings
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I would also like to see those markings if I may......thanks, Sue
Susan Smith Sandoah Achers www.sandoahachers.com American Blackbelly Sheep Barbado Sheep Painted Desert Sheep Ponies and Pigeons
From: "Barb Lee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: blackbelly@lists.coyotenet.net To: <blackbelly@lists.coyotenet.net> Subject: [blackbelly] Facial Markings Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 16:01:05 -0800
Chris, Any chance of posting a pic of those markings somewhere??? If you haven't got a site, you could send pics to me and I could post them on my PictureTrail site. Sounds fascinating!
Thanks! Barb
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Message: 10
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Barb,
I"ll see what I can do. Time is the only problem right now, I am working every day till Christmas. I probably won't be able to post them, but I will be glad to send them to you so that you can.
Chris B.
> > > Chris, > Any chance of posting a pic of those markings somewhere??? If you > haven't got a site, you could send pics to me and I could post them on > my PictureTrail site. Sounds fascinating! > > Thanks! > Barb >
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That would be wonderful if you could post those pics, Chris. I believe somewhere, I read that it is desirable to have an eye-to-nose black stripe, and I believe there was a picture of it, but I have yet to see that marking anywhere else.
Thanks! Barb
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Subject: Re: Re: [blackbelly] Facial Markings - LINKS
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 0:17:28 -0500
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Here are a couple of VERY old pics (mid 90s?) that I took and you can barely tell the eye stripe meets the chin stripe, but they will do till I can get some more. I found these on my old website. In the head shot of my old ram you can't really tell but he had a beautifully sharp stripe connecting eye and chin. I will check some old photos and see if I can find any that show it any better. Plus, like I said, I will take pics of current sheep and send them to you.
Maybe these links will work: [Link]http://members.aol.com/bkbulls/single.jpg[/Link] [Link]http://members.aol.com/bkbulls/summerlmbs.jpg[/Link] [Link]http://members.aol.com/bkbulls/Bamhead.jpg[/Link]
Just curious, but aren't there others that have these markings? Although it is my favorite marking pattern, I hate to breed for one specific trait(especially a cosmetic one). Hmm....
Chris > > That would be wonderful if you could post those pics, Chris. I believe > somewhere, I read that it is desirable to have an eye-to-nose black > stripe, and I believe there was a picture of it, but I have yet to see > that marking anywhere else. > > Thanks! > Barb >
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