Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 12:19:26 -0600 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Blackbelly digest, Vol 1 #715 - 17 msgs
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Blackbelly digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. RE: rams for sale (Sheril Miller) 2. Re: Blackbelly digest, Vol 1 #713 - 3 msgs ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) 3. HELP NEEDED (MOHAMMED ABACHA) 4. Sorry!! Re: [blackbelly] HELP NEEDED (Carol J. Elkins) 5. scrapie info (Carol J. Elkins) 6. rams for sale ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) 7. RE: HELP NEEDED (Johnson, Oneta) 8. Bottle Lamb (Sue Miller) 9. RE: HELP NEEDED (Devon Mortensen) 10. Re: Bottle Lamb (Lissa Shelton) 11. Re: Bottle Lamb ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) 12. Re: Bottle Lamb (Mitzi) 13. Re: Bottle Lamb (Mitzi) 14. Nipples for bottle feeding (James Harper) 15. RE: Nipples for bottle feeding (Susan Smith) 16. Re: Bottle Lamb (Carol J. Elkins) 17. Re: Bottle Lamb (Lissa Shelton) Message: 1 From: "Sheril Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [blackbelly] rams for sale Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 11:16:34 -0500
Hi:
I just way you email and was wondering if your rams were horned or polled, how old are they, how much are you asking and where are you located. Thanks in advance for the info.
Sheril Miller
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 7:19 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [blackbelly] rams for sale
I HAVE SOME VERY NICE RAMS FOR SALE. IF INTEREST PLEASE E-MAIL OR CALL ME.
THANK YOU
FRED
510-502-1179
209-772-3575
Message: 2 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 15:23:21 EDT
I guess I am dumb. I am relatively new at this What is sacrpie and what does it do? What are the symptoms? Thanks for the info
Message: 3 Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> From: "MOHAMMED ABACHA" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (DELETED)
Message: 4 Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 18:46:15 -0600 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: "Carol J. Elkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Sorry!! Re: [blackbelly] HELP NEEDED
Sorry folks. The listserv receives over 20 of these kinds of emails every day that I must manually reject from being posted to the list. This one slipped by me. Whenever I have to manually approve your email, whether it be because you are using HTML text or because you are writing from a non-subscribed email address, your email gets buried amongst emails from these foreign crooks. It is easy to lose yours and it is easy to accidentally let one of these bad ones through.
Carol Elkins Listserv owner
At 01:34 AM 5/24/2004 +0000, you wrote:ALHAJI MOHAMMED ABACHA 2/8 GIDADO DRIVE,GRA, KANO - NIGERIA.
PLEASE AS YOU READ KINDLY OPEN THE WEBSITE
Message: 5 Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 19:17:52 -0600 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: "Carol J. Elkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
JFallis,
Scrapie is a fatal, degenerative disease affecting the central nervous system of sheep and goats. Animals sold from infected flocks spread scrapie to other flocks. The presence of scrapie in the U.S. not only reduces the profit shepherds can make from their flocks, it also prevents the export of breeding stock, semen, and embryos to many other countries. Scrapie is related to several other diseases that are causing world-wide concern, including bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE) in cattle, and the link between BSE and new variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease (nvCJD) in people and feline spongiform encephalopathy (FSE) in cats in Europe. This increased concern has led to the following effects:
�Packers and producers have had difficulty in disposing of sheep offal and dead sheep, causing them to raise butchering costs,
�Other countries may prohibit or restrict certain ruminant products because the U.S. has scrapie, and
�Our domestic and international markets for sheep derived meat and bone meal, have been adversely affected.
The combination of all of these factors has led to the decision to develop a full-fledged scrapie eradication program in the U.S. The U.S. Government passed a law requiring all sheep owners to apply a scrapie ID tag in the ear of any sheep leaving their premises (except feeder lambs in the slaughter chain). The tags and applicator are free. The tag ensures that when a sheep is sold, it can always be traced back to its flock of origin. If the sheep is ever diagnosed as having scrapie, within 48 hours the government will be able to trace the route the sheep took from its flock of origin to the place where it was diagnosed. The government believes that this system will also be effective in helping to isolate any bioterrorism attack on U.S. flocks. A similar system enabled the government to quickly track that case of BSE reported a couple of months ago up in Washington (I think).
Scrapie got its name because of one of the more evident symptoms of the disease--a sheep that has scrapie will often rub on objects and scrape off its wool or hair. Other symptoms include weight loss despite retention of appetite; behavioral changes; itching and rubbing/biting at legs or side; lip smacking; and ;oss of coordination.
You can learn a lot more about scrapie, but for a quick, easy explanation on the most important points that you need to know, go to http://www.animalagriculture.org/scrapie/Media/QandA.htm The Q&A is a little out of date, but it will give you the general gist. Go to http://www.animalagriculture.org/scrapie/Scrapie.htm for a list of other articles you can read for additional information.
Carol
At 03:23 PM 5/23/2004 -0400, you wrote:I am relatively new at this What is sacrpie and what does it do? What are the symptoms?
Carol Elkins Critterhaven Estate Registered Barbados Blackbelly Hair Sheep (no shear, no dock, no fuss) Pueblo, Colorado http://www.critterhaven.biz T-shirts, mugs, caps, and more at the Barbados Blackbelly Online Store http://www.cafepress.com/blackbellysheep
Message: 6 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 21:38:46 EDT Subject: [blackbelly] rams for sale
HI LIST
I HAVE 3 NICE BLACKBELLY SHEEP FOR SALE. I'M IN NORTHERN CALIFORNIA NEAR STOCKTON. PLEASE CALL AT 510-502-1179 OR 209-772-3575. YOU CAN ALSO E-MAIL ME AT <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
THANKS
FRED
Message: 7 Subject: RE: [blackbelly] HELP NEEDED Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 07:47:51 -0500 From: "Johnson, Oneta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
I would assume this is a joke in bad taste because surely no one is so )(*%*&&_)*&&_???^%$# to believe this.
-----Original Message----- From: MOHAMMED ABACHA [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 8:34 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [blackbelly] HELP NEEDED
Message: 8 From: "Sue Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 08:03:08 -0500 Subject: [blackbelly] Bottle Lamb
Hi everyone,
Need some help. I have saved all of the information from this list on bottle lambs. I've never had any difficulty with them til this past week. Need some guidance.
MAy 20th we had a ewe throw twins ewe lambs. For some reason she only took to one. The other ewes were knocking it allover so I removed it. About a half hour later the ewe was bellering at the lamb so I placed it back in the pen. She continued to bleat at it but never went near it. We left the lamb out in the pen for the night. When I went out the next morning it was in the cornerof the barn alone. I called it and it came near me and again I removed it. I gave it some NutriDrench as reccommended. I was also giving it some colostrum from a cow by syringe. This little lamb is called Fancy. Fancy sounded " congested" and would cough after giving her milk replacement. That has gone away somewhat.
My difficulty is I can't get her to eat, especially from bottle. She seems to be " chewing " on the nipple but isn't really taking in any milk. If she does, she seems to chioke on it. She is having bowel movements and urinating, she gets up and stretches and have seen and heard her " burp". Have had her outisde a few times and she walks around and at times tries to trot.She is alert and comes when calledif she's awake.
Should I give her moreof the NutriDrench? Should I go back to giving her milk with the syringe so I know she's getting something? She seems to sleep and then gets up and moves around some and then lays down to sleep again. I get her up nad make her move. I rub her and try to keep her stimulated often. Last night I fed her at about 7:30 and I got down under a half ounce. It's now 8 AM and she hasn't had even a half ounce. Again this morning she seemed to choke on the milk. What should I be doing? I really need some help.
Sue
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Message: 9 From: "Devon Mortensen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [blackbelly] HELP NEEDED Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 08:24:21 -0700
i have gotten this letter at least five times yes its a lie, there just trying to get your money
Thanks, Devon & Fawn Http://groups.msn.com/LittleBuddy
_________________________________________________________________
Learn to simplify your finances and your life in Streamline Your Life from MSN Money. http://special.msn.com/money/0405streamline.armx
Message: 10 Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 08:14:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Lissa Shelton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [blackbelly] Bottle Lamb
Sue, Did the lamb get colustrum during the first 24 hours? Did you vaccinate the ewe with CDT or covexin prior to lambing? These are just two mistakes I made, and learned from recently. It took me several training sessions over a weekend to get my quads to bottle feed. I used a pritchard nipple since they are soft and easy for a newborn. Held the lamb in my lap and pried open her mouth, jammed the nipple in and let the milk dribble in. I would squeeze her jaw shut gently to help her get the idea. Eventually they got it. I ended up loosing the strongest lamb, the one who was nursing off the ewe 100%. She went from fine to dead in just about 18 hours, and I think it was because I did not give her mother a booster vaccination. Another time I lost a lamb because I did not get colustrum into her soon enough. It sounds like you are doing everything you can do for her.
Lissa
Sue Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:Hi everyone,
Need some help. I have saved all of the information from this list on bottle
lambs. I've never had any difficulty with them til this past week. Need some
guidance.
MAy 20th we had a ewe throw twins ewe lambs. For some reason she only took
to one. The other ewes were knocking it allover so I removed it. About a
half hour later the ewe was bellering at the lamb so I placed it back in the
pen. She continued to bleat at it but never went near it. We left the lamb
out in the pen for the night. When I went out the next morning it was in the
cornerof the barn alone. I called it and it came near me and again I removed
it. I gave it some NutriDrench as reccommended. I was also giving it some
colostrum from a cow by syringe. This little lamb is called Fancy. Fancy
sounded " congested" and would cough after giving her milk repla! cement. That
has gone away somewhat.
My difficulty is I can't get her to eat, especially from bottle. She seems
to be " chewing " on the nipple but isn't really taking in any milk. If she
does, she seems to chioke on it. She is having bowel movements and
urinating, she gets up and stretches and have seen and heard her " burp".
Have had her outisde a few times and she walks around and at times tries to
trot.She is alert and comes when calledif she's awake.
Should I give her moreof the NutriDrench? Should I go back to giving her
milk with the syringe so I know she's getting something? She seems to sleep
and then gets up and moves around some and then lays down to sleep again. I
get her up nad make her move. I rub her and try to keep her stimulated
often. Last night I fed her at about 7:30 and I got down under a half ounce.
It's now 8 AM and she hasn't had even a half ounce. Again this morning she
seemed to choke on the milk. What ! should I be doing? I really need some
help.
Sue
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Message: 11 Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 12:19:30 -0400 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [blackbelly] Bottle Lamb
Lissa is absolutely right about putting the nipple in its mouth and then use your hand to move it's mouth up and down until it gets the idea. Make sure the hole in the nipple is big enough that milk will come out without having to be sucked. I had to make mine bigger so it would dribble out on it's own. Don't try to feed it too much at once - a very little every couple of hours is better. What are you feeding it now? If mothers milk is not available (by you milking her), then I have found that regular condensed milk from the grocery store will keep small ones from scouring. Feed it to them straight when they are small, then GRADUALLY mix in milk replacer with it until finally, over a couple of weeks you are on milk replacer (again, assuming you aren't milking the mom).
I wouldn't shoot anything down her with a syringe, that will easily go into her lungs and give you that congestion and pneumonia. If the congestion persists, you may need to give her a shot of anitbiotics. Just let the milk dribble out of the nipple so she can swallow it. If she only gets a couple of ounces at a time that is ok, but feed her often - I fed mine every 2 hours morning and night for the first couple of days and then every 4 hours for a few days. It is exhausting and I would never do it again. The next bottle baby is getting sold to someone who wants a pet.
Last thought - always follow the same routine. If you sit on the floor and hold her in your lap to feed her, do this every time at least until she understands what she is supposed to do.
Good luck!! Onalee
In a message dated 5/24/2004 11:14:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> Sue, Did the lamb get colustrum during the first 24 hours? Did you vaccinate the ewe with CDT or covexin prior to lambing? These are just two mistakes I made, and learned from recently. It took me several training sessions over a weekend to get my quads to bottle feed. I used a pritchard nipple since they are soft and easy for a newborn. Held the lamb in my lap and pried open her mouth, jammed the nipple in and let the milk dribble in. I would squeeze her jaw shut gently to help her get the idea. Eventually they got it. I ended up loosing the strongest lamb, the one who was nursing off the ewe 100%. She went from fine to dead in just about 18 hours, and I think it was because I did not give her mother a booster vaccination. Another time I lost a lamb because I did not get colustrum into her soon enough. It sounds like you are doing everything you can do for her.
Message: 12 From: "Mitzi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 11:32:00 -0500 Subject: Re: [blackbelly] Bottle Lamb
Through trial and error I finally figured out that I had to wrap my hand around their mouth and put them in a head lock (gently lol!). I would just put the
nipple in their mouth and hold around their mouth and talk to them, they didn't have a lot of choice but to swallow. You might try different nipples, too.
I've got a collection of goat & human baby nipples but those red pritchard (sp?) nipples that fit on soda bottles is what I've had the very best luck with.
I don't think I've ever had a goat or lamb baby not accept that kind of nipple. It also helps to warm the milk when they're that young. I would start out
with a very small hole, small enough that you have to squeeze a little to get the milk to come out. That way you can control how much they're getting, it
won't just drip in their mouth, it'll lessen the chances of her coughing it up or choking or aspirating it.
Oh, and get them good and hungry 1st, too. That seems to help. Nutridrench sure doesn't seem like it'd hurt either.
They're so unbelievably precious.....I've had so many different animals in my life and nothing compares to a little hair lamb on my shoulder.
Good luck!
Mitzi
Oklahoma
>Sue Miller wrote:
>Hi everyone, >Need some help. I have saved all of the information from this list on bottle >lambs. I've never had any difficulty with them til this past week. Need some >guidance. >MAy 20th we had a ewe throw twins ewe lambs. For some reason she only took >to one. The other ewes were knocking it allover so I removed it. About a >half hour later the ewe was bellering at the lamb so I placed it back in the >pen. She continued to bleat at it but never went near it. We left the lamb >out in the pen for the night. When I went out the next morning it was in the >cornerof the barn alone. I called it and it came near me and again I removed >it. I gave it some NutriDrench as reccommended. I was also giving it some >colostrum from a cow by syringe. This little lamb is called Fancy. Fancy >sounded " congested" and would cough after giving her milk replacement. That >has gone away somewhat. >My difficulty is I can't get her to eat, especially from bottle. She seems >to be " chewing " on the nipple but isn't really taking in any milk. If she >does, she seems to chioke on it. She is having bowel movements and >urinating, she gets up and stretches and have seen and heard her " burp". >Have had her outisde a few times and she walks around and at times tries to >trot.She is alert and comes when calledif she's awake. >Should I give her moreof the NutriDrench? Should I go back to giving her >milk with the syringe so I know she's getting something? She seems to sleep >and then gets up and moves around some and then lays down to sleep again. I >get her up nad make her move. I rub her and try to keep her stimulated >often. Last night I fed her at about 7:30 and I got down under a half ounce. >It's now 8 AM and she hasn't had even a half ounce. Again this morning she >seemed to choke on the milk. What should I be doing? I really need some >help. > Sue
Message: 13 From: "Mitzi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 11:42:27 -0500 Subject: Re: [blackbelly] Bottle Lamb
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I fed mine every 2 hours morning and night for the first couple of days and then every 4 hours for a few days. It is exhausting and I would never do it
>again. The next bottle baby is getting sold to someone who wants a pet.
>Good luck!!
>Onalee
I have dibs on your next bottle baby! lol!
I've gotten mine as young as 5 days or so but I've never fed more often than 3 times a day.
I'm one of those rare characters that just loves to bottle feed :-)
Mitzi
Oklahoma
Message: 14 From: "James Harper" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Blackbelly List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 12:55:33 -0400 Subject: [blackbelly] Nipples for bottle feeding
Except for the red nipple with the yellow screw on cap from Premier 1, the only nipples I can presently find are the black nipples that you pull over a plastic soda bottle. I have found that the black nipple is made of a harder rubber than the shades of brown/tan nipples that I have. I can not find anyone how sells the shades of brown/tan nipples that are mad of a softer rubber. Is it possible for the list to share the types of nipples they might have that can still be purchased and the company's website and/or address and phone number?
I am not talking about the nipples that are placed on a bucket for the lambs/kids to obtain their milk, though if you would like to share that type of nipple that is also fine.
Thanks!
James Harper Virginia Regional Director and BBSAI Newsletter Editor Blackbelly Barbadaos Sheep Association International (804) 732-2626 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message: 15 From: "Susan Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [blackbelly] Nipples for bottle feeding Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 17:25:41 +0000
James, for my lambs I used the 500 ml Non-Vac Bottle w/nipple SS0407B and also bought the replacement nipples. They came from Sydell 1-800-842-1369
www.sydell.com Even the little lamb that was nearly dead took to this nipple after she was strong enough and off the syringe. They have several styles of nipples including the Pritchard. Have a good one. Sue Smith
Susan Smith Sandoah Achers www.sandoahachers.homestead.com Barbado Sheep (hair breed) Ponies 4-H Projects Public Sales Donkey Rescue and Adoption
Is it possible for the list to share the types of nipples they might have that can still be purchased and the company's website and/or address and phone number?
I am not talking about the nipples that are placed on a bucket for the lambs/kids to obtain their milk, though if you would like to share that type of nipple that is also fine.
Thanks!
James Harper Virginia Regional Director and BBSAI Newsletter Editor Blackbelly Barbadaos Sheep Association International (804) 732-2626 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message: 16 Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 11:28:29 -0600 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: "Carol J. Elkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [blackbelly] Bottle Lamb
Sue,
Here are a couple other things you might try.
Instead of putting the lamb in your lap, make your body more like that of the ewe. Get down on all fours and with one hand hold the bottle just under your hip, similar to where the ewe's udder would be. If you have to, wrap your upper body around the lamb while still holding the bottle at your hip. I have had zero success getting bummers to nurse when sitting in my lap, but when my body covers them or just their head, it seems to kick in their automatic nursing reflex. Eventually (in a couple of days), I can set back in a squatting position and hold the bottle at my hip, pointing between my knees.
I recommend you feed every 3 hours during Day 2 thru 3. Then, Day 4 thru 7: every 4 hours Day 8 thru 21: every 6 hours Day 21 thru 35: every 8 hours Day 25 till weaning: every 12 hours.
There is some excellent information about raising bottle lambs at the following sites:
My article about raising bummer lambs. http://www.critterhaven.biz/bummerlamb.htm
Artificial Rearing of Lambs on Milk Replacer Diets. Article from Department of Animal Sciences, Oregon State University
http://oregonstate.edu/dept/animal-sciences/artirear.htm
Lamb and Kid Care--Information about general care, tube and bottle feeding, orphans, castration. http://www.sheepandgoat.com/lambkidcare.html
At 08:03 AM 5/24/2004 -0500, you wrote:
My difficulty is I can't get her to eat, especially from bottle.
Message: 17 Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 10:31:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Lissa Shelton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [blackbelly] Bottle Lamb To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I fed mine 3 times a day for the first 10 days, at 6 am, at 4 pm, and at 7 pm, then they got two feedings, 6 am and 5 pm. I worried at first, but it's worked out fine. They are 31 days old now, but I am lucky because they are nursing some from the mother - but she has mastitis on both sides and therefore not much milk, so I will continue to supplement for another 2 weeks.
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=============================================== This message is from the Barbados Blackbelly Sheep mailing list (http://www.awrittenword.com/listserv/index.html). To respond to this message, send e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe or change your membership options, go to http://lists.coyotenet.net/mailman/listinfo/blackbelly To search the archives, go to http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
