Yeah, a more powerful version of BGT would be very nice. I would love to see things like 3D sounds and database support. It's early, so those are the two things that I can think of off the top of my head.
I wouldn't trust anything the FCC is putting out right now, given what they are trying to do to the Internet. Incidentally, it made my day when I found out that Ajit Pai was doxxed. If you want me to take you seriously on the subject of politics John, then don't provide links to an agency that is under the control of one of the most corrupt presidential administrations in U.S. history. On 12/19/17, john <jpcarnemo...@gmail.com> wrote: > Here's a start for the political aspect. > I'm fully aware this is a waver notice. Its expired. Hunt down more info if > > you really want to have an informed discussion, rather than making blatantly > > untrue statements that are easily refuted by two minutes work. > https://www.fcc.gov/document/fcc-extends-acs-waiver-video-game-software > > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Justin Jones" <atreides...@gmail.com> > Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 18:42 > To: <blind-gamers@groups.io> > Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] developing accessible games > > Okay, it's a start. I'll concede that much; but we have a long way to > go and most of my points still stand. > > On the political front, i.e. enforcing/creating legislation for > accessibility-and not only games-we are completely screwed here in the > United States-unless we can elect a Democrat-controlled Congress. > That, however, is another topic for another time. > > P.S. Do not confuse a realistic appraisal of a situation with > bitterness; you only undermine your own credibility. > > On 12/18/17, Joshua Tubbs <orin8...@gmail.com> wrote: >> Well, hold on a minute. Not fully accessible. No talking menus yet. >> Making >> plays and the actual gameplay, with vision assists on, is pretty >> accessible. >> It’s also not fully accessible because there needs to be more things >> implemented for the passing game. The workaround that Karen, Ea Sport’s >> accessibility lead, came up with isn’t deficient enough, though it is for >> pretty much everyone else but me lol. >> >> HTH. >> >> >> >>> On Dec 18, 2017, at 5:45 PM, Josh Kennedy <joshknnd1...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> EA games has an accessibility department now. Madden nfl is fully >>> accessible on xBox within the past 3 or so months. >>> >>> >>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for >>> Windows 10 >>> >>> From: Justin Jones <mailto:atreides...@gmail.com> >>> Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 16:37 >>> To: blind-gamers@groups.io <mailto:blind-gamers@groups.io> >>> Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] developing accessible games >>> >>> Warning, wall of text to follow; apologies in advance. >>> >>> Amusing; I have a bridge to sell you guys. Your sentimentality does >>> not line up with the stark economic reality of game >>> development/publishing. >>> >>> Up until recently, I have been playing mainstream games for over >>> thirty years. I lost the rest of my eyesight a couple of years ago and >>> my old habits and preferences for gaming were, for obvious reasons, >>> barred to me. Over the literal decades of gaming I have done, I have >>> never seen one instance of a mainstream publisher/developer take an >>> interest in creating games with substantial accessibility features for >>> the blind. Not. One. Single. Instance. Any accessibility features, >>> i.e. hotkeys and the like, are only incidentally blind-friendly and >>> not put in by actual intent of the game designer to cater to us. I am >>> not blaming them for this, rather I am pointing out the hard facts of >>> life. >>> >>> If we want to play mainstream games, it is up to us to adapt. In no >>> instance, ever, is a developer/publisher going to insert a feature for >>> their Triple A title just to satisfy one or two people's desire for >>> additional accessibility. With games, they are on tight development >>> schedules and only have so much time to devote to a single title >>> before they move on and start working on the next game. Harsh, but >>> this gets back to the ruthless economics of game development. >>> >>> Speaking of the ruthlessness of gaming economics, mainstream >>> publishers are interested in how they can increase their profitability >>> and they are not going to do that by making their games accessible to >>> a very small minority of people. This is a fact; you do not have to >>> like it, but there it is. Electronic Arts, for instance, is more >>> concerned with how they can screw their existing gamer base over with >>> lootboxes and micro-transactions. You would have to show me hard >>> evidence that they have any interest in us as a community. In other >>> words, I am being that guy: links or it didn't happen (and that >>> includes my argument from the previous paragraph). >>> >>> The same goes with any other mainstream publishing company whether it >>> be Activision-Blizzard or Sega; the market share just isn't there to >>> develop for blind gamers. Indi developers, on the other hand, might be >>> an avenue of approach, but they have all they can do just to stay >>> afloat. If it comes down to developing a sure-fire winner of a title >>> for sighted players or taking a chance on developing something for the >>> blind, nine times out of ten, they will do the former and not the >>> latter. >>> >>> Another point I would like to raise is that inclusiveness is just now >>> becoming a thing in the mainstream gaming scene, i.e. recognition of >>> LBGTQ main characters or strong female protagonists that do not fall >>> back on male stereotypes. Yes, it has taken this long and the process >>> is in its infancy. If the mainstream gaming community ever decides to >>> take us seriously as gamers, it is going to be a very long time >>> (decades, if ever). >>> >>> If we, as blind gamers, want the equivalent of good mainstream games, >>> then it is up to us to do it for ourselves-as with everything else >>> that we, as blind people, have had to accomplish over the years. >>> Therefore, what is the point in trying to provide accessibility >>> features to the sighted when they have zero interest in doing so? This >>> isn't about tit-for-tat, rather this is confronting reality and not >>> trying to construct a fantasy world in which the mainstream gaming >>> community take us seriously. >>> >>> Again, if anyone has any links to hard evidence that shows a genuine >>> sea change in mainstream gaming community practices toward blind >>> inclusiveness, then feel free to post them here and I will be happy to >>> give them a look. Also, and more importantly, I will only take >>> attempts at accessibility seriously-from the mainstream gaming >>> developer community-when they start announcing attempts at making >>> games like Elder Scrolls, World of Warcraft, Dawn of War III, Metroid >>> Prime IV, Assassin's Creed or any equivalent titles with blind players >>> in mind. >>> >>> Again, sorry for the wall of text. >>> >>> On 12/18/17, Damien Sykes <dam...@dcpendleton.plus.com >>> <mailto:dam...@dcpendleton.plus.com>> wrote: >>> > Hi Shaun, >>> > Yeah. Much as I hate to admit it, I was diagnosed with autism myself, >>> > near >>> > the aspergers end. I say I hate to admit it, but only because people >>> > judge >>> > me harshly for it. I'm not ashamed of it, it's who I am. But I am >>> > ashamed of >>> > >>> > some of my childhood attitudes. Whether that was my autism, or whether >>> > >>> > I >>> > was >>> > >>> > just full of hatred anger and bitterness, I don't know, and I don't >>> > particularly care to go back there neither. That was a very dark time >>> > for >>> > me. To be honest, I think I was possibly more angry with life than I >>> > was >>> > with any particular person or group of people. I still struggle with >>> > my >>> > emotions even today, but on a very different level. >>> > Cheers. >>> > Damien. >>> > -----Original Message----- >>> > From: Shaun Everiss >>> > Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 8:25 PM >>> > To: blind-gamers@groups.io <mailto:blind-gamers@groups.io> >>> > Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] developing accessible games >>> > >>> > I agree damien. >>> > >>> > I was like this from 15-20 years then from 26-30, but I am ok now. >>> > >>> > A lot of things did not pan out and I have accepted though I am still >>> > bitter about some of those things. >>> > >>> > I however can't do anything about them. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > On 19/12/2017 9:18 a.m., Damien Sykes wrote: >>> >> Hi Justin, >>> >> Your below message represents almost the exact bitter and prejudiced >>> >> thoughts of a 14-year-old me. Sighted people probably have a good >>> >> thousand >>> >> >>> >> games to every one of ours. So why should we give a damn? But no. We >>> >> need >>> >> >>> >> to try and include everyone, otherwise we are not only stooping to >>> >> that >>> >> level, if indeed they are doing it maliciously, which most don't seem >>> >> to >>> >> be. But we are also cutting off our nose to spite our face. Make a >>> >> well >>> >> known game, make it for the blind only, have a family game night, >>> >> fire >>> >> it >>> >> >>> >> up and you'll see what I mean. You're totally isolating yourself from >>> >> everyone else and that's not fair on you, or them. >>> >> Recently I've been looking into new languages so that I can start >>> >> messing >>> >> >>> >> around seeing if I can make big grand audio games, but also to see if >>> >> I >>> >> can create some online games that I can play with my family. It's >>> >> lonely >>> >> when your family are playing without you, or when you're playing a >>> >> game >>> >> solo that is meant to be multiplayer. If anything has shown me how >>> >> important this kind of stuff is, it's the value of family. >>> >> Cheers. >>> >> Damien. >>> >> -----Original Message----- From: Justin Jones >>> >> Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 6:34 PM >>> >> To: blind-gamers@groups.io <mailto:blind-gamers@groups.io> >>> >> Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] developing accessible games >>> >> >>> >> I am going to have to respectfully disagree; for an audio game, for >>> >> people with no visual acuity, visual elements are both a waste of >>> >> time >>> >> and resources. >>> >> >>> >> If I were, for example, to try and develop a role-playing game along >>> >> the same lines as Baldur's Gate, production time would be increased >>> >> by >>> >> at least a factor of two. A visual interface is very different than >>> >> an >>> >> audio one-especially for role-playing games. >>> >> >>> >> This might sound a little petty (and if it does, I could not care >>> >> less), but the mainstream gaming industry has made it very clear that >>> >> accessibility and inclusiveness for blind players is not anything >>> >> like >>> >> a priority. Why should we, as blind gamers/game developers, make any >>> >> sort of effort to include that group of gamers? Put differently, if a >>> >> sighted person wants to play an audio game, there is nothing stopping >>> >> them from doing so, but it is not our problem if they complain over >>> >> the lack of a visual interface/feedback. >>> >> >>> >> This is my chief complaint with A Hero's Call: Out of Sight Games is >>> >> attempting to prostitute itself to a community that does not give a >>> >> damn about an indi developer trying to make a game for both blind and >>> >> sighted people. Unless Out of Sight Games has a hidden art department >>> >> as a part of their team, no sighted person (other than the curious) >>> >> will purchase their game. Why would they? They have Skyrim, Diablo >>> >> III, Path of Exile, Fallout 4, and so on. >>> >> >>> >> On 12/18/17, Liam Erven <liamer...@gmail.com >>> >> <mailto:liamer...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>> >>> I disagree. There are times where having visual feedback is >>> >>> important. >>> >>> Especially in a game that you’d want to put in schools. >>> >>> There should never be a reason not to include visual elements. >>> >>> Access >>> >>> for >>> >>> all works both ways. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10 >>> >>> >>> >>> From: Damien Sykes >>> >>> Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 11:09 AM >>> >>> To: blind-gamers@groups.io <mailto:blind-gamers@groups.io> >>> >>> Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] developing accessible games >>> >>> >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> I don’t know why, but I like the fact that there’s no visual >>> >>> element. >>> >>> I >>> >>> know >>> >>> that a UI won’t make or break an audio game, but if there’s no UI >>> >>> then >>> >>> you >>> >>> have no choice but to go fully audio, and it really makes you think >>> >>> about >>> >>> what information needs to be conveyed. Almost like writing your own >>> >>> mini >>> >>> and/or virtual screen reader, I guess. I must say, it was a fun >>> >>> challenge >>> >>> conceptualising and writing the audio form. >>> >>> Cheers. >>> >>> Damien. >>> >>> >>> >>> From: Liam Erven >>> >>> Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 3:52 PM >>> >>> To: blind-gamers@groups.io <mailto:blind-gamers@groups.io> >>> >>> Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] developing accessible games >>> >>> >>> >>> My biggest issues are lack of cross-platform, lack of environmental >>> >>> effects, >>> >>> and no way to do any sort of visual UI. That’s been an issue in >>> >>> Brain >>> >>> Station unfortunately. >>> >>> This is the problem when you get too comfortable with a scripting >>> >>> language >>> >>> like what was stated earlier. You don’t want to learn anything else. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10 >>> >>> >>> >>> From: Damien Sykes >>> >>> Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 9:39 AM >>> >>> To: blind-gamers@groups.io <mailto:blind-gamers@groups.io> >>> >>> Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] developing accessible games >>> >>> >>> >>> Hi Justin, >>> >>> Indeed there are workarounds for these issues, but they are trivial >>> >>> compared >>> >>> >>> >>> to some of the bigger limitations. No 3d. No audio effects >>> >>> (filtering, >>> >>> reverb etc). Not cross-platform. Can't really do anything with >>> >>> binary >>> >>> data >>> >>> unless you do all the calculations and conversions yourself. >>> >>> Tantrums >>> >>> from >>> >>> the garbage collector from time to time, which of course will reduce >>> >>> performance. No real way of totally resetting the state of >>> >>> execution. >>> >>> Of >>> >>> course you can reset all the variables, but the call stack will >>> >>> still >>> >>> show a >>> >>> >>> >>> call to reset... >>> >>> The binary data and reset state aren't big showstoppers for me. Even >>> >>> the >>> >>> cross platform isn't a big deal for me. I only ever use Windows for >>> >>> my >>> >>> main >>> >>> >>> >>> work, only ever use Linux for server admin through SSH and I don't >>> >>> see >>> >>> myself getting a mac or phone anytime soon. But performance is >>> >>> definitely >>> >>> important in any product, and since I'm seeing more and more games >>> >>> make >>> >>> use >>> >>> >>> >>> of 3d audio and environmental effects, if I made another game I'd >>> >>> want >>> >>> to >>> >>> >>> >>> be >>> >>> >>> >>> able to use that. >>> >>> Cheers. >>> >>> Damien. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> >>> From: Justin Jones >>> >>> Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 3:11 PM >>> >>> To: blind-gamers@groups.io <mailto:blind-gamers@groups.io> >>> >>> Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] developing accessible games >>> >>> >>> >>> One example of this sort of limitation is that BGT will only allow >>> >>> for >>> >>> the reading of string data types from a file and nothing else. For >>> >>> example, if you tell BGT to output a series of numbers into a text >>> >>> file, it does this just fine, but if you try to read those numbers >>> >>> back into a piece of code as integers, i.e. assigning the values to >>> >>> an >>> >>> integer data type, BGT kicks back an error. Of course, there is a >>> >>> work-around for this, but you have to use the string conversion >>> >>> functions to convert a string data type to an integer data type. >>> >>> This >>> >>> is an odd limitation, considering that the other programming >>> >>> languages >>> >>> I've worked with in the past do not have this problem. >>> >>> >>> >>> Another example of a limitation for BGT is data validation. If you >>> >>> were to have the user input a number, there is no built-in >>> >>> functionality for the input box function to perform data validation. >>> >>> Again, there are work-arounds for this, but this ought to have been >>> >>> something that is a part of the input box function. >>> >>> >>> >>> I freely admit that I could be wrong concerning both of these >>> >>> examples. >>> >>> >>> >>> On 12/18/17, Liam Erven <liamer...@gmail.com >>> >>> <mailto:liamer...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>> >>>> It’s still a scripting language by definition. It’s good for games, >>> >>>> but >>> >>>> not >>> >>>> much else. Also has several limitations which could be problematic. >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10 >>> >>>> >>> >>>> From: Josh Kennedy >>> >>>> Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 6:36 AM >>> >>>> To: blind-gamers@groups.io <mailto:blind-gamers@groups.io> >>> >>>> Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] developing accessible games >>> >>>> >>> >>>> Sam tupy’s elaborate survive the wild game was written entirely in >>> >>>> bgt. >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10 >>> >>>> >>> >>>> From: Justin Jones >>> >>>> Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 07:31 >>> >>>> To: blind-gamers@groups.io <mailto:blind-gamers@groups.io> >>> >>>> Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] developing accessible games >>> >>>> >>> >>>> So long as you understand that BGT isn't a real programming >>> >>>> language, >>> >>>> as it falls under scripting. >>> >>>> >>> >>>> It's not a bad start though, as it can do plenty of cool things and >>> >>>> also serves as an intro to game programming, but it is only an >>> >>>> intro. >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> On 12/17/17, Josh Kennedy <joshknnd1...@gmail.com >>> >>>> <mailto:joshknnd1...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>> >>>>> Try the free bgt toolkit. Free blind game makers toolkit. Just >>> >>>>> google >>> >>>>> search >>> >>>>> bgt blind game makers toolkit. >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10 >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> From: Marvin Hunkin via Groups.Io >>> >>>>> Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 20:23 >>> >>>>> To: blind-gamers@groups.io <mailto:blind-gamers@groups.io> >>> >>>>> Subject: [blind-gamers] developing accessible games >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> Hi. maybe this is too technical. But do you know of any blind >>> >>>>> developers >>> >>>>> developing an accessible game framework and also an accessible >>> >>>>> diagramming >>> >>>>> software. If so, let me know. And also what’s the steps to develop >>> >>>>> an >>> >>>>> accessible game say for windows. >>> >>>>> Thanks. >>> >>>>> Ps: also for like mobile, ios, android, x box, etc. thanks. >>> >>>>> Ps: thinking of doing a diploma of interactive gaming from my >>> >>>>> school,and >>> >>>>> they have like a few subjects, 3d interactive gaming and designing >>> >>>>> 3d >>> >>>>> graphics, etc. any one done these type of courses. Thanks. >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>> Virus-free. www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com/> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> -- >>> >>>> Justin M. Jones, M.A. >>> >>>> atreides...@gmail.com <mailto:atreides...@gmail.com> >>> >>>> (254) 624-9155 >>> >>>> 701 Ewing St. #509-C, Ft. Wayne IN, 46802 >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Justin M. Jones, M.A. >>> >>> atreides...@gmail.com <mailto:atreides...@gmail.com> >>> >>> (254) 624-9155 >>> >>> 701 Ewing St. #509-C, Ft. Wayne IN, 46802 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >> >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Justin M. Jones, M.A. >>> atreides...@gmail.com <mailto:atreides...@gmail.com> >>> (254) 624-9155 >>> 701 Ewing St. #509-C, Ft. Wayne IN, 46802 >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> > > > -- > Justin M. Jones, M.A. > atreides...@gmail.com > (254) 624-9155 > 701 Ewing St. #509-C, Ft. Wayne IN, 46802 > > > > > > > -- Justin M. Jones, M.A. atreides...@gmail.com (254) 624-9155 701 Ewing St. #509-C, Ft. Wayne IN, 46802 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Groups.io Links: You receive all messages sent to this group. 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