news servers use nntp if I remember properly.
Jude <jdashiel at panix dot com> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) . On Mon, 23 Jan 2023, Travis Siegel wrote: > You'd be surprised at how many of those protocols are still in use. In fact, > most web browsers simply quietly redirect to the appropriate service these > days, without even telling the user they're doing so. Unless you specifically > look in the browser url, you'd never know you're on a gopher server, or an ftp > site. Add to that, most ftp sites now have http connections, (but can still be > accessed via ftp), same with news servers, though they have their own > protocol. I subscribe to a news server, and there's still thousands of posts > every month in hundreds of thousands of groups, but most folks use their web > browser to hit those servers. I never did like the way web browsers offered > up nntp feeds, so I still use a nntp client (trn, or rn depending on where I > access it from), adn that works best for me. Your mileage will likely vary. > > > On 1/23/2023 6:16 PM, Shaun Everiss wrote: > > Well half of that is old now. > > > > I do have an ftp client but I don't need to access it. > > > > Like the old news groups of yesteryear most of this stuff may still exist > > but just like bbs systems they are rarely if ever used. > > > > Most things are via the web and web interface which is whateveryone uses. > > > > As for listserves with google groups, facebook groups, groups.io and other > > cloud interface nets list serves at least the traditional ones aren't that > > advantageous. > > > > You'd have to exist in the early 90s to get online. > > > > As I started in 1996 I did do ndws groups, ftps and list serves and yes muds > > and some bbss units but. > > > > But most of that doesn't apply now. > > > > Even now unless you have a website the closest I get to ftp is ftp over > > https in fact all the modern brousers don't allow non https or ftp or > > aanything not secure so yeah. > > > > I used to fileshare and hack with huge massive ftp servers mostly at home > > downloading loads of created and legal/alegal content. > > > > But with all the new rules, traffic use, etc pluss the rust string incident > > and victom incidents on the blindness community, not to mention blind extra > > most of that is gone. > > > > Even the traditional servers that run don't exist and for those that do not > > for standard users. > > > > 99.9% of my work is via https, web, non https, cloud server or something > > like that on windows. > > > > I don't have have no plans to but I guess if you really move down you can > > access even darknet. > > > > But then I really don't go beyond my small group of serfice internet at all. > > > > And I don't much mind. > > > > There was a time before covid when I was in my 20s, and yunger, a fighter of > > the system, I even was a small time music and software pirate but that was > > before. > > > > There is almost no need especially with subscription services, artest > > created tracks opensource and a host of other things to engage in the > > battles of my youth. > > > > Now its not all dead if you want to fight but the net caught up with the > > fight and I don't care for that sort of battle anymore. > > > > It was fun and I enjoyed it but I have no need now and am pritty much > > retired. > > > > I was never a serious player anyway. > > > > Anyway there are people that still do this on secure systems in fact if you > > look at some of their faqs on the fight you really need to have different > > systems and things to fight now its not a yung dabbling universe. > > > > If you don't then yeah down below someone can just get you. > > > > Others can fight as far as I care now. > > > > > > On 24/01/2023 8:09 am, Jude DaShiell wrote: > >> You missed out on a huge amount of the basic training. You didn't learn > >> about ftp or gopher either or listserv among other things. They also > >> never showed you how to come up with good passwords either. It's no > >> wonder the script kitty and hacker class have so much fun on the internet. > >> Sighted people got no better training than you. > >> > >> > >> > >> Jude <jdashiel at panix dot com> "There are four boxes to be used in > >> defense of liberty: > >> soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." > >> -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) > >> > >> . > >> > >> On Mon, 23 Jan 2023, Day Garwood wrote: > >> > >>> Telnet is part of basic internet training? Yikes. The only training we had > >>> in > >>> the UK back in my days was, this is how to browse the web, this is how to > >>> check your emails. Oh, and don't give out your passwords. > >>> > >>> Had I been at a different school or in a different time I guess I might > >>> have > >>> been taught more internet and network-based stuff in my A-levels, but, > >>> well, > >>> let's just say that turned out to be a total fiasco. > >>> > >>> Cheers. > >>> > >>> On 23/01/2023 18:54, Jude DaShiell wrote: > >>>> Not everybody had proper internet training. There used to be a course > >>>> called roadmap to the internet which was a 10 lesson email independent > >>>> study course a long time ago and one of the lessons in that course > >>>> covered > >>>> telnet. I took the course but lost the lessons when internet providers > >>>> changed. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Jude <jdashiel at panix dot com> "There are four boxes to be used in > >>>> defense of liberty: > >>>> soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." > >>>> -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) > >>>> > >>>> . > >>>> > >>>> On Mon, 23 Jan 2023, Day Garwood wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Hi Travis, > >>>>> > >>>>> You say simple, but I've never even heard of a telnet client lol. > >>>>> > >>>>> Text based games? I'm reminded of geeky command line stuff, but I can't > >>>>> imagine that working for games. Like, kill enemy. The enemy is dead... > >>>>> > >>>>> Clearly there's more to it than that, they wouldn't make thousands of > >>>>> games > >>>>> if > >>>>> they had no challenge. So yeah, now you've really lit my fire. > >>>>> > >>>>> The only downside is I think the novelty would wear off pretty soon, > >>>>> since > >>>>> it > >>>>> wouldn't be very realistic. But hey, who knows. If they're as big as > >>>>> they > >>>>> sound they might be like books where I just can't put them down even > >>>>> though > >>>>> I > >>>>> haven't got all the sound effects going on. > >>>>> Can you clarify when you say you can't break anything? As I say I got > >>>>> tons > >>>>> and > >>>>> tons of errors last time, so I'm guessing I did something wrong. I can't > >>>>> imagine a client with that many errors making it out the door. And I > >>>>> hadn't > >>>>> heard of anyone else getting errors at the time either. > >>>>> Also when you're finally connected if users are waiting for you to do > >>>>> something and you don't know what you're doing I can easily see harsh > >>>>> words > >>>>> flying back and forwards. > >>>>> I can see why people might think it's just a case of put a mud (I.E. a > >>>>> game) > >>>>> online and people show up. After all, if I run a TopSpeed or Crazy Party > >>>>> server, that's literally all it is. And if you don't know about muds > >>>>> then > >>>>> that > >>>>> could be a common misconception. I would probably have got caught in > >>>>> that > >>>>> trap > >>>>> myself if you hadn't have informed me otherwise. Also there's the fact > >>>>> that > >>>>> some people just don't know the difference between a host and an admin - > >>>>> that's not me, although again, I have been there once. > >>>>> Cheers. > >>>>> > >>>>> On 23/01/2023 17:52, Travis Siegel wrote: > >>>>>> Muds are simply games that are hosted online. There's thousands of > >>>>>> them, > >>>>>> in > >>>>>> every genre, so your first problem is choosing one that fits the kind > >>>>>> of > >>>>>> game you want to play. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> They are text based, so a simple telnet client is all you need to play > >>>>>> them. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> There are mud clients that make interacting with the muds easier, but > >>>>>> they > >>>>>> are by no means essential to play. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Sincce you're new though, you should probably give it a try with a mud > >>>>>> that > >>>>>> does have features for visually impaired users, such as 3k, or > >>>>>> alteraeon, > >>>>>> since both of those muds have features to cut down on the amount of > >>>>>> spam > >>>>>> you > >>>>>> receive while logged into the game, and that can make a huge difference > >>>>>> even > >>>>>> for veteran players. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Basically though, head on over to the mud connector > >>>>>> > >>>>>> http://www.mudconnect.com, look for a mud that looks interesting, and > >>>>>> have > >>>>>> at it. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> When you first log into a mud, you can (generally) use any name you > >>>>>> like, > >>>>>> since it's a game, the point is to have fun, so nobody needs (or in > >>>>>> most > >>>>>> cases wants) to know you real name, so just pick something that sounds > >>>>>> good > >>>>>> to you, and run with it. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> As you get more and more experience with muds, you'll gravitate to > >>>>>> particular kinds of muds or particular mud drivers/systems. Some folks > >>>>>> love > >>>>>> the diku style muds (circle, rom, tartarus, envy, and so on), others > >>>>>> prefer > >>>>>> a more custom esperience, LPC muds (btw, 3k and lostsouls are both lpc > >>>>>> muds), Alteraeon is a custom written driver that kind of resembles both > >>>>>> circle and lpc, but it's agood combination that works. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> If you're looking for a mud that has lots of other blind players so you > >>>>>> can > >>>>>> get assistance, alteraeon might be where you want to start, but if > >>>>>> you're > >>>>>> interested in just trying things out, 3k may be where you want to > >>>>>> start, > >>>>>> because they have areas for science, fantasy, and chaos (thus the 3 > >>>>>> kingdoms > >>>>>> monicre), but they do have a bit of a newbie friendly zone to get > >>>>>> started > >>>>>> in, though it's nowhere near as guided as you might find on circle > >>>>>> based > >>>>>> muds, what with their newbie school that practically walks you through > >>>>>> the > >>>>>> first few levels, telling you what to type, how to type it, and when to > >>>>>> do > >>>>>> different things. I was never a fan of that myself, but I do see the > >>>>>> appeal. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> So, anyway, either take a listing from the mailing list that looks good > >>>>>> to > >>>>>> you, or check mudconnector and find something for yourself you think > >>>>>> might > >>>>>> work, then dive in, you can't break it. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> There's tons of mud clients, aand to be perfectly honest, I've never in > >>>>>> my > >>>>>> life used anything other than a mainstream mud client. I've never even > >>>>>> tried those put out specifically for visually impaired users, because I > >>>>>> personally can't stand the hand holding most mud clients try to do > >>>>>> (even > >>>>>> for > >>>>>> sighted folks), which is why I've stuck to things like muddle and > >>>>>> tintin > >>>>>> over the years, because those both have scripting languages, but it's > >>>>>> more > >>>>>> or less up to the user to do their own scripting to make it do what > >>>>>> they > >>>>>> want, and that's more my style. I never did like preconfigured clients > >>>>>> that > >>>>>> only allow me to do cer5tain things, because someone thought it was a > >>>>>> good > >>>>>> idea to protect me from commands I might accidentally type. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> (why? You can't break anything, so why bother?) > >>>>>> > >>>>>> The first mud ZI ever played on was called dark wind, and I believe > >>>>>> that > >>>>>> mud > >>>>>> is gone now, although it still existed a few years ago. That was also > >>>>>> the > >>>>>> first mud I became a wizard on, and built areas for other players to > >>>>>> use. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I've also run my own muds from time to time, (rom, LPMud, mordor, > >>>>>> empire, > >>>>>> and others, but running a mud is a *lot* of work, and I just don't have > >>>>>> the > >>>>>> patience for it. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I did host muds for several years in the late 90s, but I eventually got > >>>>>> out > >>>>>> of that too, dealing with customer requests got out of hand, even with > >>>>>> terms > >>>>>> clearly outlined I was still being asked to compile a mud, fix a bug, > >>>>>> and > >>>>>> so > >>>>>> on and so on. You run the mud, it's up to you to maintain the thing. > >>>>>> Too > >>>>>> many folks thought running a mud was a s simple as putting up a server, > >>>>>> and > >>>>>> the players show up. <sigh> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Anyway, that's neither here nor there. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> The take away from this message is that there's thousands of muds out > >>>>>> there, > >>>>>> find one that works for you, and you'll be happy. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On 1/23/2023 11:32 AM, Day Garwood wrote: > >>>>>>> Hi, > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I've seen a lot of messages here about muds. I'm getting the > >>>>>>> impression > >>>>>>> that, given that not many audiogames are made any more, seems like > >>>>>>> muds > >>>>>>> are > >>>>>>> the way forward if I want to try anything new. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I don't know a lot about them, in fact I thought "mud" was a game, but > >>>>>>> based on messages that I'm seeing I'm getting the impression they're > >>>>>>> merely > >>>>>>> a type of game. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> The only think I really know is that you need a "mud client", > >>>>>>> suggesting > >>>>>>> that they're online based. That makes me think of things like QuentinC > >>>>>>> and > >>>>>>> RS, but even that doesn't quite sound right somehow. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Years ago, I tried to use VIPMud but got nowhere, then was told that > >>>>>>> it > >>>>>>> wasn't supported so I should go use this other thing (which was > >>>>>>> apparently > >>>>>>> better anyway). My teacher then Enthusiastically got me to press loads > >>>>>>> of > >>>>>>> buttons, only to discover that I got a whole screenload of errors, and > >>>>>>> then > >>>>>>> they didn't know what to do with themselves and clicked off. So bang > >>>>>>> went > >>>>>>> that idea. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> That was the last I heard about muds for a while, up to now. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> So I'd be interested to know how they work, how I might go about > >>>>>>> trying > >>>>>>> one > >>>>>>> without embarrassing myself, which client I should try, which game I > >>>>>>> should > >>>>>>> try, etc etc. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Even better, if someone has any free time and would be willing to > >>>>>>> actually > >>>>>>> sit and go through it with me step by step privately on a call or > >>>>>>> something, that would be amazing. Especially since the one lesson I > >>>>>>> learned > >>>>>>> from my disaster of a session is that it's not a case of download, > >>>>>>> launch, > >>>>>>> play, like most audiogames are. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> It'll probably turn out to be one of those things that sounds overly > >>>>>>> complicated now, but in a year I'll be a whiz at it. Hopefully. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Cheers. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Groups.io Links: You receive all messages sent to this group. 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