Couldn't have said it better myself. Ron ----- Original Message ----- From: NLG To: blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2007 7:26 PM Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan](hot or neutral) Fuses and light bulbs
There are two separate wires coming out of the fuse box. One is the hot wire which will be attached to the fuse holder in the box. The other wire is the neutral wire and will be attached to a bus bar in the fuse box. You can distinguish between the hot wire and the neutral wire by establishing a temporary ground. A temporary ground can be a metal water pipe, a ground rod driven into the earth (such as the telephone company's ground) Hook a volt meter up with one lead from the meter connected to the temporary ground and the other to one of the wires connected to a receptacle. If it reads voltage you are connected to the hot wire. If no voltage is detected, you are connected to the neutral wire. ----- Original Message ----- From: Dale Leavens To: blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2007 18:17 Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan](hot or neutral) Fuses and light bulbs Now here is the question? There is one wire which begins at the box and returns to the box. It is pulled from fixture to fixture, from plug to plug and broken at intervals by switches. Branch fixtures are fed by soldering on a branch wire. At which point does that wire change from a live wire to a neutral wire? Now as I have been replacing circuits in this old house I can tell you there is no way to discriminate a live from a neutral. You cannot just cut into one wire for the live side to add a fixture and complete the circuit by identifying a neutral wire to tap into. When there is a switch in such a circuit are you saying that because it is down stream from the lamp this is the neutral side? So long as the switch is open there is no circuit regardless if it is in that wire before the lamp or after the lamp. Neutral in the context of knob and tube really doesn't have much meaning. Dale Leavens, Cochrane Ontario Canada [EMAIL PROTECTED] Skype DaleLeavens Come and meet Aurora, Nakita and Nanook at our polar bear habitat. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny McHugh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2007 1:13 PM Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan](hot or neutral) Fuses and light bulbs > Hi Ron, Yes, that is the way was in my home and a few others in which I > worked. The one thing that I found out in replacing the wire was that the > old knob and tube wiring was that all light switches broke the neutral as > opposed to the hot. > I have been told that in those days it was believed that was the safe way > to > wire. > I haven't been able to verify that fact. > Lenny > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "R & S Enterprises" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2007 12:50 PM > Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan](hot or neutral) Fuses and light bulbs > > > AAAhhhh. I can't speak for the knob and tube in the fair north land, but > the > ones I have been involved with in the states have a grounded neutral. The > sad part that they used the same black wire for all the wiring or else it > discolored with age. Anyway it required me using a portable ground > reference when doing changes and adds. True it does not have the third > equipment grounding wire, but there is a hot and neutral side. at least in > my experience. > Ron > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Dale Leavens > To: blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2007 11:46 PM > Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan](hot or neutral) Fuses and light bulbs > > > You worry too much! > > knob and tube wiring is much different, there isn't really a hot or > neutral > side. A single wire runs from point-to-point with branches soldered in at > points where expedient so in some sense the entire circuit is always hot > unless a switch breaks the circuit. Fortunately, knob and tube isn't > grounded so short of standing in a grounded sink full of water, removing > a > broken bulb with the switch turned off is probably safer than with a > properly grounded two conductor circuit. > > Knob and tube wiring actually is much safer provided you don't go adding > to > it. Once a circuit is broken with a switch there simply is no way for > electricity to flow through the circuit. The simple thing that needs to > be > remembered about electricity is that it needs a loop. break that loop and > there is no way for it to energize anything. It is possible to create an > alternative loop like from the hot to ground or from one circuit to > another > but that takes work in a case like this. > > Dale Leavens, Cochrane Ontario Canada > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Skype DaleLeavens > Come and meet Aurora, Nakita and Nanook at our polar bear habitat. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny McHugh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 12:13 AM > Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan](hot or neutral) Fuses and light bulbs > > > Well for my two cents: The hot wire in new homes is broken at the > switch. > > However old homes that have old knob and post wiring are usually not > wired > > that way. When I purchased this home which is a little over a 100 years > > old > > the old wiring was reversed. When the home was wired it was thought > that > > was best to have the neutral lines broken at the switch. > > An electrician friend when working in older homes always removes the > fuse > > or > > trips the breaker prior to working on a circuit. I have an ac detector > > that > > lets me know if there is any current in a line. It gives an audible > sound. > > I would trip the circuit before toying with that light. > > Lenny > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "David Engebretson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2007 11:15 PM > > Subject: RE: [BlindHandyMan] Fuses and light bulbs > > > > > > The faucet analogy doesn't make sense to me. A pipe feeding the faucet > > either > > has pressure or it doesn't. > > > > Light bulbs, on the other hand, have two wires leading to their plugs. > > One > > hot > > and one neutral. I've always heard that the neutral is the wire that is > > broken > > when a switch is thrown. > > > > Either way, if the electrician wired it so the neutral is the wire that > is > > broken when the switch is thrown, then the hot would still be active. > If > > the > > hot and anything grounded touched, there would be sparks, right? > > > > Thanks, > > David > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > On > > Behalf Of Jay Williams > > Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2007 7:42 PM > > To: blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan] Fuses and light bulbs > > > > > > Nothing will happen if the switch is off! It disconnects the hot side > so > > what's there to spark? Remember, the switch comes *before the light > bulb > > so > > anything you do at the location of the bult is safe. Think of the > fawcet > > on > > your washbasin. If you turn off the valve that's before the fawcet on > the > > intake pipe, than you can remove the fawcet and no water will gush. If > > there's no valve right there, than you would turn off the valve for the > > whole mains. Same here, if the only way to turn off these lights is to > > throw > > the main switch, than that's what you'd have to do. > > Jay > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "David Engebretson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2007 6:07 PM > > Subject: RE: [BlindHandyMan] Fuses and light bulbs > > > > > >> Oh boy, sounds scary. If I touch the outside at the same time as the > > inside, > >> will it spark and possibly blow a fuse? > >> > >> Thanks, > >> David > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com > >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > On > >> Behalf Of Bill Gallik > >> Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2007 6:02 PM > >> To: blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com > >> Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan] Fuses and light bulbs > >> > >> > >> Take an electrical needle nose pliers and just latch onto the inside > of > > the > >> broken bulb. Electrical needle nose pliers have rubber handles to > > insulate > >> you from electrical shock. And if you want to play it real safe stand > on > > a > >> wooden chair or step ladder when you do this. > >> ---------------- > >> Bill Gallik > >> E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> To listen to the show archives go to link > >> http://acbradio.org/handyman.html > >> or > >> ftp://ftp.acbradio.org/acbradio-archives/handyman/ > >> > >> The Pod Cast address for the Blind Handy Man Show is. > >> http://www.acbradio.org/news/xml/podcast.php?pgm=saturday > >> > >> The Pod Cast address for the Cooking In The Dark Show is. > >> http://www.gcast.com/u/cookingindark/main.xml > >> > >> Visit The Blind Handy Man Files Page To Review Contributions From > Various > > List > >> Members At The Following address: > >> http://www.jaws-users.com/handyman/ > >> > >> Visit the new archives page at the following address > >> http://www.mail-archive.com/blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com/ > >> For a complete list of email commands pertaining to the Blind Handy > Man > > list > >> just send a blank message to: > >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> Yahoo! Groups Links > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> No virus found in this incoming message. > >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. > >> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.3/699 - Release Date: > 2/23/2007 > > 1:26 > >> PM > >> > >> > >> -- > >> No virus found in this outgoing message. > >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. > >> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.3/699 - Release Date: > 2/23/2007 > > 1:26 > >> PM > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> To listen to the show archives go to link > >> http://acbradio.org/handyman.html > >> or > >> ftp://ftp.acbradio.org/acbradio-archives/handyman/ > >> > >> The Pod Cast address for the Blind Handy Man Show is. > >> http://www.acbradio.org/news/xml/podcast.php?pgm=saturday > >> > >> The Pod Cast address for the Cooking In The Dark Show is. > >> http://www.gcast.com/u/cookingindark/main.xml > >> > >> Visit The Blind Handy Man Files Page To Review Contributions From > Various > > List Members At The Following address: > >> http://www.jaws-users.com/handyman/ > >> > >> Visit the new archives page at the following address > >> http://www.mail-archive.com/blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com/ > >> For a complete list of email commands pertaining to the Blind Handy > Man > > list just send a blank message to: > >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> Yahoo! Groups Links > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > To listen to the show archives go to link > > http://acbradio.org/handyman.html > > or > > ftp://ftp.acbradio.org/acbradio-archives/handyman/ > > > > The Pod Cast address for the Blind Handy Man Show is. > > http://www.acbradio.org/news/xml/podcast.php?pgm=saturday > > > > The Pod Cast address for the Cooking In The Dark Show is. > > http://www.gcast.com/u/cookingindark/main.xml > > > > Visit The Blind Handy Man Files Page To Review Contributions From > Various > > List > > Members At The Following address: > > http://www.jaws-users.com/handyman/ > > > > Visit the new archives page at the following address > > http://www.mail-archive.com/blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com/ > > For a complete list of email commands pertaining to the Blind Handy Man > > list > > just send a blank message to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.3/699 - Release Date: > 2/23/2007 > > 1:26 > > PM > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.3/699 - Release Date: > 2/23/2007 > > 1:26 > > PM > > > > > > > > > > > > To listen to the show archives go to link > > http://acbradio.org/handyman.html > > or > > ftp://ftp.acbradio.org/acbradio-archives/handyman/ > > > > The Pod Cast address for the Blind Handy Man Show is. > > http://www.acbradio.org/news/xml/podcast.php?pgm=saturday > > > > The Pod Cast address for the Cooking In The Dark Show is. > > http://www.gcast.com/u/cookingindark/main.xml > > > > Visit The Blind Handy Man Files Page To Review Contributions From > Various > > List Members At The Following address: > > http://www.jaws-users.com/handyman/ > > > > Visit the new archives page at the following address > > http://www.mail-archive.com/blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com/ > > For a complete list of email commands pertaining to the Blind Handy Man > > list > > just send a blank message to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To listen to the show archives go to link > > http://acbradio.org/handyman.html > > or > > ftp://ftp.acbradio.org/acbradio-archives/handyman/ > > > > The Pod Cast address for the Blind Handy Man Show is. > > http://www.acbradio.org/news/xml/podcast.php?pgm=saturday > > > > The Pod Cast address for the Cooking In The Dark Show is. > > http://www.gcast.com/u/cookingindark/main.xml > > > > Visit The Blind Handy Man Files Page To Review Contributions From > Various > > List Members At The Following address: > > http://www.jaws-users.com/handyman/ > > > > Visit the new archives page at the following address > > http://www.mail-archive.com/blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com/ > > For a complete list of email commands pertaining to the Blind Handy Man > > list just send a blank message to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.1.412 / Virus Database: 268.18.3/699 - Release Date: > 23/02/2007 > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > To listen to the show archives go to link > http://acbradio.org/handyman.html > or > ftp://ftp.acbradio.org/acbradio-archives/handyman/ > > The Pod Cast address for the Blind Handy Man Show is. > http://www.acbradio.org/news/xml/podcast.php?pgm=saturday > > The Pod Cast address for the Cooking In The Dark Show is. > http://www.gcast.com/u/cookingindark/main.xml > > Visit The Blind Handy Man Files Page To Review Contributions From Various > List Members At The Following address: > http://www.jaws-users.com/handyman/ > > Visit the new archives page at the following address > http://www.mail-archive.com/blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com/ > For a complete list of email commands pertaining to the Blind Handy Man > list > just send a blank message to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > To listen to the show archives go to link > http://acbradio.org/handyman.html > or > ftp://ftp.acbradio.org/acbradio-archives/handyman/ > > The Pod Cast address for the Blind Handy Man Show is. > http://www.acbradio.org/news/xml/podcast.php?pgm=saturday > > The Pod Cast address for the Cooking In The Dark Show is. > http://www.gcast.com/u/cookingindark/main.xml > > Visit The Blind Handy Man Files Page To Review Contributions From Various > List Members At The Following address: > http://www.jaws-users.com/handyman/ > > Visit the new archives page at the following address > http://www.mail-archive.com/blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com/ > For a complete list of email commands pertaining to the Blind Handy Man > list just send a blank message to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.412 / Virus Database: 268.18.3/700 - Release Date: 24/02/2007 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> See what's inside the new Yahoo! Groups email. http://us.click.yahoo.com/0It09A/bOaOAA/yQLSAA/86xolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To listen to the show archives go to link http://acbradio.org/handyman.html or ftp://ftp.acbradio.org/acbradio-archives/handyman/ The Pod Cast address for the Blind Handy Man Show is. http://www.acbradio.org/news/xml/podcast.php?pgm=saturday The Pod Cast address for the Cooking In The Dark Show is. http://www.gcast.com/u/cookingindark/main.xml Visit The Blind Handy Man Files Page To Review Contributions From Various List Members At The Following address: http://www.jaws-users.com/handyman/ Visit the new archives page at the following address http://www.mail-archive.com/blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com/ For a complete list of email commands pertaining to the Blind Handy Man list just send a blank message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! 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