John,
You are quite right. Once you have water against one side of concrete it will
migrate through. Attempt to waterproof the dry side are soon fruitless. You can
retard evaporation and wicking fairly well from the dry side but you won't stop
it and it isn't long before any impervious coating begins to separate and come
away if there is wet on the outside.
There is substantial force in the migration of moisture from high to low
saturation and water will migrate through about anything porous. when it meets
a barrier it simply collects there until any weakness is encountered and in the
case of concrete this may be in the form of soluble salts where a coating meets
the original cement.
I don't know if Claudia now has her underlying water saturation issue solved,
if I remember they cut a channel around the perimeter of the inside to carry
water to a sump after first removing all or most of the organic material from
the space.
The alternative would be to excavate the perimeter of the building, install a
really good weeping system which might also include a sump and pump if a
suitable storm drain isn't available then scape the ground to slope away from
the building preferably with a water retardant cap and good additional surface
drainage. I have largely done that here but it was expensive.
----- Original Message -----
From: john schwery
To: blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2010 11:03 AM
Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan] Basements Again!
Claudia, it seems to me, if your getting water
into your basement, you need to divert the water away.
earlier, Dale Leavens, wrote:
>
>
>Good morning Claudia,
>
>Insulating a basement and finishing the inside
>walls is a big and costly job though not without
>benefit. It would probably be well worth while
>though to take the time to really go around the
>basement and seal up any penetrations. Easily
>the biggest heat gains or losses are through air
>gaps and other air exchange points between the
>inside and outside. This makes tings a lot
>quieter as well. If you are getting a lot of
>dust and dirt and insects into the basement it
>sounds to me like you have lots of access points.
>
>Sealing things up isn't easy but it isn't
>necessarily all that expensive. Most of the
>trouble will be around points where things like
>drier vents, water and other pipes enter or
>leave the building, utilities like telephone,
>television and electrical cable enter the house,
>places like water pipes, outdoor electrical
>outlets leave the building. Then around windows,
>a lot of air, dirt and critters tend to move
>around poorly sealed window frames.
>
>Finally, there are often remarkably large spaces
>between the sill of the building and the top of
>the basement. Outside there may be siding or
>other finish covering such spaces but they are
>there and air moves through them bringing in the outdoor environment.
>
>You want to carefully and methodically make your
>way around the top of the basement wall probably
>with the wand of your vacuum and a brush to
>sweep and suck loose dust and debris out of such
>places then follow either with good elastic
>calking or by filling the gaps with some of that
>sticky difficult expanding spray foam.
>
>Similarly, seal around the penetrations and
>window frames and you might even want to apply
>some sort of appropriate weather stripping to any windows.
>
>Most of these products prefer warmer conditions
>to apply but I find that poking around in
>particularly cold weather often helps locate
>those cool entry points. Sighted people might
>stick a bit of toilet paper to the end of a wire
>like a length of coat hanger wire and push that
>toward suspect places where they can watch very
>small air currents disturb the paper like a flag.
>
>Calking and spray foam are damn sticky and in
>that regard not very blind friendly. One can
>grease ones hands up with something like
>Vaseline and that helps but you don't want to
>transfer the grease onto the surfaces you are
>sealing or the sealant won't stick. This is also
>why you remove as much dust and grit as you can before applying the sealers.
>
>Mostly, over filling with the spray foam doesn't
>matter much, you can trim off the excess with a
>sharp old knife if it is in the way after it sets up.
>
>Once you take care of the air leaks the next
>most cost effective insulation is to again climb
>up there to the sill and insulate the rim and joist bays.
>
>The joist bays are those pockets between the
>ends of the floor joists where they cross the
>top of the basement wall. Again remove dirt and
>dust and you might even wish to calk where the
>floor crosses the rim joist and possibly where
>the rim joist sits on the sill. You could try to
>accurately cut extruded foam insulation to push
>in there but it is very difficult to get a
>really good fit and you really do want to fill
>any gaps thoroughly. I like to cut fiberglass
>bats for this purpose. You can usually buy a
>bundle of bats the correct width, 14 inches or 2
>inches depending on the spacing of your joists.
>It isn't nice stuff to handle and you want to
>cut it fairly accurately. You probably have 10
>inch joists, actually closer to 9 and a quarter
>inches. and they will be about 14 and a quarter
>inches apart. You don't want to be forcing the
>fiberglass into the bay, you want a snug and
>full fit but compressing the insulation will
>reduce it's efficiency. These joist bays and
>along the long rim joist are the thinnest point
>between you and the outside and are the highest
>heat loss points. Further, insulating along
>there will really improve the comfort of the floor above.
>
>cut the bat into length about 10 inches then fit
>them carefully into the joist bays. You can
>probably fit two into each bay depending on the
>thickness, usually 4 or 6 inch thickness. fluff
>it just a little so it well fills the space.
>
>You may wish to use a dust mask to keep any
>fibers and dust in those location out of your
>respiratory tract. I like to use an old long
>sleeve shirt and it helps to wear light gloves,
>even just light cotton gloves to keep any
>particles out of the skin of your hands.
>
>to cut the bats I have found an old wavy
>serrated bread knife about as good as anything.
>I pull the end over a piece of lumber, maybe an
>old bit of 2 by 4, place another over it and
>kneel on that pinching the insulation between
>them with the pressure of a knee squashing it
>fully down then with the bread knife follow the
>2 by 4s as a guide and saw the 10 inch end off.
>
>Along the side rim joist you can split the bat
>lengthwise to fit and slide them into place end-to-end so they fit snugly.
>
>You can also have a commercial company come in
>and blow closed cell foam into these locations
>and there are many other much more expensive and
>albeit variably more effective methods. Studding
>out the walls, fitting electrical then having
>closed cell foam blown in is probably the very
>best solution in the long term but my
>recommendation can probably be done by yourself
>for a couple of hundred dollars and serve you well.
>
>Hope this is helpful.
>
>Dale leavens.
>
>------ Original Message -----
>From: Claudia
>To: <mailto:blindhandyman%40yahoogroups.com>blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com
>Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2010 4:56 AM
>Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan] Basements Again!
>
>The walls were sealed with a water-based paint,
>but I would think I would eventually need
>drywall, in order to help with insulating the basement?
>We currently have no insulation in place,
>either; the basements is bare too the bone, at the moment.
>
>Claudia
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Cy Selfridge
>To: <mailto:blindhandyman%40yahoogroups.com>blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com
>Sent: Friday, July 02, 2010 7:56 PM
>Subject: RE: [BlindHandyMan] Basements Again!
>
>Claudia,
>
>I have seen responses from various folks and their advice is good.
>
>I would probably not bother to put in dry wall but rather seal the walls
>with one of the new products as there is a possibility of more water in the
>future.
>
>I use my large Sears shop vac and have purchased an optional tool designed
>specifically for picking up things on the floor. (not the squeegy)
>
>I also have a couple of extra extensions for the plastic wand which will
>allow me to reach up a good 7 or 8 feet above my arm's length. The want on
>my shop vac is large enough to ingest tennis balls and the like so it will
>do a great job of sucking down the webs as well as picking up all manner of
>reasonable large objects from the floor.
>
>If you are able to seal off the basement I wold let loose a couple of those
>bug bombs for starters. This will eliminate the bug problem and then you can
>control it by the regular monthly spraying.
>
>I saw someone mention those Shell No Pest strips. They really do work and I
>have used them in the kitchen of my restaurants many years ago to control
>various flying things which come inside during the summertime.
>
>You can find what I think is the same product in many farm type stores.
>These little strips are used on cattle to ward off flies and other insects
>and they work just like the old Shell No Pest Strips.
>
>HTH,
>
>Cy
>
>From:
><mailto:blindhandyman%40yahoogroups.com>blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com
>[mailto:blindhandy...@yahoogroups.com]
>On Behalf Of Claudia
>Sent: Friday, July 02, 2010 1:05 PM
>To: <mailto:blindhandyman%40yahoogroups.com>blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [BlindHandyMan] Basements Again!
>
>Hi All,
>
>We have a large unfinished basement; the floors are concrete, and the walls
>are cindrblock.
>There is no insulation or drywall in the basement currently!
>We had that all taken out, after we experienced about a foot of water, in
>our basement, two years ago.
>What would be the best way to go about keeping the basement floor clean? We
>currently use a shop vac to do that, but it takes forever and a day, to get
>it done.
>Also, I think I asked about this before, but the basement gets full of
>spiders and spider webs, and I hate walking around down there, feeling stuff
>hanging over my head!
>What can we do to curb some of this activity, if anything?
>
>Or, would some of this probelm be eliminated, once we start putting back new
>insulation and drywall?
>Thanks.
>
>Claudia
>
>Windows Messenger:
><mailto:cdelreal1973%40sbcglobal.net>cdelreal1...@sbcglobal.net
><mailto:cdelreal1973%40sbcglobal.net>
>Skype: claudiadr10
>
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John
Currently in Ocala, Florida Mostly Cloudy, 80°F Wind:ENE-070° at 10mph
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