On Tue, Feb 15, 2022 at 11:38 AM 'Mustaq Ahmed' via blink-dev < blink-dev@chromium.org> wrote:
> > > On Tue, Feb 15, 2022 at 11:16 AM Chris Harrelson <chris...@chromium.org> > wrote: > >> LGTM2 for the extension to 102, but comments below. It would be very good >> to make progress on landing additional spec pieces. >> >> On Tue, Feb 15, 2022 at 8:09 AM 'Mustaq Ahmed' via blink-dev < >> blink-dev@chromium.org> wrote: >> >>> I think [1] would be useful for developers but I see two blockers here: >>> first we need to land the Capability Delegation patch >>> <https://wicg.github.io/capability-delegation/spec.html#monkey-patch-to-html-tracking-delegation> >>> in HTML spec as a "reference point" for this idea, then the PR for >>> navigator.userActivation <https://github.com/whatwg/html/pull/4009> >>> needs to land too. >>> >> >> Hi Mustaq, >> >> Is there anything blocking integrating the delegation patch into the HTML >> spec, and landing the PR for userActivation? There seems to be implementer >> interest from at least Gecko. >> > > - For the Capability Delegation patch > <https://wicg.github.io/capability-delegation/spec.html#monkey-patch-to-html-tracking-delegation>, > yes we are already working with Gecko and will start working on an HTML PR > soon (see its intent > <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/blink-dev/c/PHT_2X7oRBE/m/gR9UiZxBAQAJ> > thread). > - The PR for navigator.userActivation > <https://github.com/whatwg/html/pull/4009> still "needs implementer > interest" I think, cc-ing dtapuska@ if I missed something. (Note that > this is separate from the "user activation v2" model which is already > spec-ed > <https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/interaction.html#tracking-user-activation> > .) > At the last HTML triage meeting <https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/7488#issuecomment-1029510684> we got multi-implementer interest and agreement on navigator.userActivation. We still weren't clear on the use cases for the postMessage() parts of that PR. So, if you or someone else are willing to split out the PR into two pieces, we can land the navigator.userActivation piece quickly. > > >> Chris >> >> >>> On Mon, Feb 14, 2022 at 9:51 AM Mike Taylor <miketa...@chromium.org> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Thanks for the thoughtful answers! >>>> >>>> LGTM1. I'll trust you to file bugs / feature requests for those 3 items >>>> (and yeah, 3 sounds like a useful, but hard problem to solve). >>>> >>>> On 2/14/22 9:44 AM, Stephen Mcgruer wrote: >>>> >>>> > Is there anything we can learn about their challenges that might >>>> apply to the broader ecosystem? >>>> >>>> A little, though largely it appears to be a bug in either >>>> their application or in Chrome (we're still trying to figure out which!). >>>> Simplifying, the problem is that they seem to be losing the Capability >>>> Delegation between click and (in a different iframe) the call to PR.show(), >>>> and it's quite tricky to debug this in a large async application. I can >>>> think of a few things that might help: >>>> >>>> 1. Adding capability delegation support to navigator.userActivation >>>> <https://github.com/dtapuska/useractivation> would likely be useful, >>>> e.g. exposing an array of capabilities currently active. This would make it >>>> much easier to quickly debug 'do I have a CD right here'. I hope the >>>> Capability Delegation folks might consider adding this! :) >>>> 2. Pausing user activation timeout when code execution in devtools is >>>> paused would be useful. >>>> 3. More generally (and more hand-wavingly), being able to more easily >>>> trace flows through async iframes 'somehow'. Devtools has some support for >>>> this, and it might just be user error that we and the partner are >>>> struggling, but when we're trying to answer questions like "Is it possible >>>> that this event flowed through an intermediary iframe that was created and >>>> destroyed again before this line of code executed", it can be tricky. >>>> >>>> On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 at 09:27, Mike Taylor <miketa...@chromium.org> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Stephen, >>>>> >>>>> Is there anything we can learn about their challenges that might apply >>>>> to the broader ecosystem? >>>>> >>>>> On 2/14/22 9:22 AM, Stephen McGruer wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hey all, >>>>> >>>>> Unfortunately we've hit a snag in our deprecation; a partner has been >>>>> having trouble integrating this change into their system, and though we >>>>> are >>>>> engaged in helping them we haven't made much progress yet. >>>>> >>>>> As such, I'm currently requesting that we delay this deprecation *until >>>>> M102*, to give us more time to help solve their problem before we >>>>> require user activation. (I'm not sure how many LGTMs delaying a >>>>> deprecation requires?) >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Stephen >>>>> >>>>> On Tuesday, January 4, 2022 at 10:29:01 AM UTC-5 Stephen McGruer wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hey folks, >>>>>> >>>>>> Following up here - we have determined that the remaining uses *do* >>>>>> necessitate >>>>>> making Capability Delegation available for web developers (see our Intent >>>>>> to Experiment >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/u/1/a/chromium.org/g/blink-dev/c/i6pAWsjU7zg/m/CzqgcGAXAwAJ> >>>>>> - >>>>>> unfortunately our partner didn't engage at that time or we would have >>>>>> caught this earlier :(. ) >>>>>> >>>>>> We expect an Intent to Ship to be sent for Capability Delegation >>>>>> 'soon', targeting M100, and so are planning to push this deprecation out >>>>>> to >>>>>> M100 as well to align with that. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> Stephen >>>>>> On Wednesday, December 1, 2021 at 3:25:01 PM UTC-5 Mike Taylor wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> LGTM3 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 12/1/21 12:34 PM, Chris Harrelson wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> LGTM2 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Dec 1, 2021 at 9:33 AM Yoav Weiss <yoavwe...@chromium.org> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> LGTM1 to deprecate in M98 and remove in M99, assuming no surprises >>>>>>>> come up on the usage front. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, Dec 1, 2021 at 6:31 PM Stephen Mcgruer < >>>>>>>> smcgr...@chromium.org> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> To be clear; I think we have a good enough shot of that remaining >>>>>>>>> site fixing their code 'soon' (I expect O(weeks)) that we both: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 1. Shouldn't do the removal till they have, and >>>>>>>>> 2. Don't need to provide an alternative in the form of capability >>>>>>>>> delegation. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> But the code change to at least start this deprecation would have >>>>>>>>> to land by December 9th (or we punt for 1.5 months), hence why we're >>>>>>>>> filing >>>>>>>>> this ahead of them fixing their site :). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Wed, 1 Dec 2021 at 12:22, Stephen Mcgruer < >>>>>>>>> smcgr...@chromium.org> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> > Does the primary remaining site have fallback code, or will it >>>>>>>>>> be broken? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Yes and no :). It doesn't have automatic fallback for the >>>>>>>>>> specific payment method the user has selected (Google Pay), but the >>>>>>>>>> user >>>>>>>>>> could then select one of the other payment methods that the site >>>>>>>>>> supports >>>>>>>>>> (either a credit card flow or I think PayPal IIRC). >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 1 Dec 2021 at 11:05, Yoav Weiss <yoavwe...@chromium.org> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Dec 1, 2021 at 4:43 PM Stephen Mcgruer < >>>>>>>>>>> smcgr...@chromium.org> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Contact emails smcgr...@chromium.org >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Specification >>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.w3.org/TR/payment-request/#show-method >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Summary >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Allowing PaymentRequest.show() to be triggered without a user >>>>>>>>>>>> activation could be abused by malicious websites. To protect >>>>>>>>>>>> users, the >>>>>>>>>>>> spec was changed to require user activation, and we are now >>>>>>>>>>>> following >>>>>>>>>>>> through in the Chrome implementation. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Plan is to deprecate in M98 and remove in M99. We may push the >>>>>>>>>>>> M99 date to M100 based on compat risk; see below. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Blink component Blink>Payments >>>>>>>>>>>> <https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/list?q=component:Blink%3EPayments> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> TAG review N/A - enforcement of feature from an >>>>>>>>>>>> already-reviewed specification >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> TAG review status Pending >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Risks >>>>>>>>>>>> Interoperability and Compatibility >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Interoperability: no risk. Firefox has not shipped >>>>>>>>>>>> PaymentRequest at all, whilst Safari's implementation already >>>>>>>>>>>> requires user >>>>>>>>>>>> activation for calling show(). Compatibility: the main risk. If a >>>>>>>>>>>> website >>>>>>>>>>>> is calling PaymentRequest.show() without a user activation today, >>>>>>>>>>>> it will >>>>>>>>>>>> stop working. If that website doesn't have fallback code to use >>>>>>>>>>>> another >>>>>>>>>>>> payments flow, it may lead to a broken purchase experience for the >>>>>>>>>>>> user. >>>>>>>>>>>> Due to this risk, we added a UseCounter, >>>>>>>>>>>> kPaymentRequestShowWithoutGesture, >>>>>>>>>>>> which tracks use of the feature. Although hits on the UseCounter >>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>> reduced significantly since 2019*, there is still non-zero usage >>>>>>>>>>>> which is >>>>>>>>>>>> growing slowly over time. We believe the growth to be related to >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> general increase of web payments, rather than an expanded number >>>>>>>>>>>> of sites. >>>>>>>>>>>> To tackle the remaining usage, we have performed a UKM analysis, >>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> identified the primary remaining site. We are in contact with >>>>>>>>>>>> them, and >>>>>>>>>>>> expect them to roll out a fix in the coming weeks - after which we >>>>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>>>> revisit the numbers and this thread. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Does the primary remaining site have fallback code, or will it >>>>>>>>>>> be broken? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> * >>>>>>>>>>>> https://chromestatus.com/metrics/feature/timeline/popularity/2398 >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Gecko: In development ( >>>>>>>>>>>> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1445138) >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> WebKit: Shipped/Shipping ( >>>>>>>>>>>> https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=179056) >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Web developers: No signals >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Other signals: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Debuggability >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> As we are treating this as a deprecation, we intend to use the >>>>>>>>>>>> issues tab (as per the checklist) to warn developers of the >>>>>>>>>>>> upcoming >>>>>>>>>>>> removal. Once the support is removed, calling show() will throw a >>>>>>>>>>>> SecurityError with a clear error message. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Is this feature fully tested by web-platform-tests >>>>>>>>>>>> <https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/master/docs/testing/web_platform_tests.md> >>>>>>>>>>>> ? Yes - >>>>>>>>>>>> https://wpt.fyi/results/payment-request/show-consume-activation.https.html?label=experimental&label=master&aligned >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Requires code in //chrome? False >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Tracking bug https://crbug.com/825270 >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Estimated milestones >>>>>>>>>>>> Deprecate in M98, remove in M99 or M100 (compat risk depending). >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Link to entry on the Chrome Platform Status >>>>>>>>>>>> https://chromestatus.com/feature/5948593429020672 >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Links to previous Intent discussions Intent to prototype: >>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/u/1/a/chromium.org/g/blink-dev/c/2PhPgk_k9a0/m/alO4yt_HBQAJ >>>>>>>>>>>> Intent to Experiment: >>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/u/1/a/chromium.org/g/blink-dev/c/i6pAWsjU7zg/m/CzqgcGAXAwAJ >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> - This is a bit of a strange case, where we initially >>>>>>>>>>>> believed that we needed Capability Delegation to support >>>>>>>>>>>> deprecating this >>>>>>>>>>>> feature. However, the partner who needed that ability has >>>>>>>>>>>> instead solved >>>>>>>>>>>> their problem in a different way. As such, we believe it safe >>>>>>>>>>>> to require >>>>>>>>>>>> user activation for show() calls *without* Capability >>>>>>>>>>>> Delegation being available. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> This intent message was generated by Chrome Platform Status >>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.chromestatus.com/> and hand edited by smcgruer@. >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. >>>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CADY3Mae4RVpVxnjMS8oJ7WE7yOtAiqqa79%3D8v%2ByNf2XhCtHWgg%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CADY3Mae4RVpVxnjMS8oJ7WE7yOtAiqqa79%3D8v%2ByNf2XhCtHWgg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>> send an email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. >>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAL5BFfU3ebwnoKvHPkXhQeSZ2mSfqgW_i_pXJVqEGaFjPJWWKA%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAL5BFfU3ebwnoKvHPkXhQeSZ2mSfqgW_i_pXJVqEGaFjPJWWKA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>> send an email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAOMQ%2Bw-19DXQBytn%2BUChj%3D5p9JrgrhMZYGxVDYgkv262ttDkoA%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAOMQ%2Bw-19DXQBytn%2BUChj%3D5p9JrgrhMZYGxVDYgkv262ttDkoA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>> . >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAB0cuO4_9hPrmzJ2kw26iBzt09dSscvGY%3DsVNOBGeTQQmQ-7Ug%40mail.gmail.com >>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAB0cuO4_9hPrmzJ2kw26iBzt09dSscvGY%3DsVNOBGeTQQmQ-7Ug%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "blink-dev" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAB0cuO6LSycEt_gm1VKHP-_VUgo-ri1x3Ux9f9jrzGaZufWr9g%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAB0cuO6LSycEt_gm1VKHP-_VUgo-ri1x3Ux9f9jrzGaZufWr9g%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "blink-dev" group. 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