LGTM2.
-mike
On Tue, Apr 12, 2022 at 6:08 AM Yoav Weiss <yoavwe...@chromium.org> wrote:
LGTM1
Thanks for pushing this through. Please make sure to follow-up on
any feedback we'd get on the PR itself.
On Mon, Apr 11, 2022 at 7:44 PM Emanuel Krivoy
<fived...@chromium.org> wrote:
Hello!
I've removed the options object from our implementation, and
filed a new PR against the WHATWG repo
(https://github.com/whatwg/fs/pull/21) that incorporates the
previous feedback.
Yoav:
Yes, we'd like to keep the current OT running and then ship on
102 without removing availability of the surface in between.
On Thu, Apr 7, 2022 at 12:38 PM Yoav Weiss
<yoavwe...@chromium.org> wrote:
On Mon, Apr 4, 2022 at 5:11 PM Emanuel Krivoy
<fived...@chromium.org> wrote:
Hello,Replying to Mike inline:
https://github.com/WICG/file-system-access/pull/344
<https://github.com/WICG/file-system-access/pull/344>doesn't
seem to have moved in the last ~2 weeks, and I
don't see a new PR against the WHATWG spec. What's
y'all's timeline for finishing the specification
of this feature?
The plan is to create the PR against the spec in
WHATWG this week. It should include the changes from
the current feedback in the old PR.
Thanks for doing this investigation! It does sound
like something we'd want to resolve before
shipping, as it would be unfortunate for this to
present a barrier to interop.
I didn't see a bug filed against webkit in a quick
search, can you follow up on that (or point it out
if I missed it)?
I directly followed up with WebKit and the Storage
team. The result of the discussions was that, to avoid
compatibility issues with Safari and leave the design
of the options object fully open, we should
temporarily remove the options parameter from
createSyncAccessHandle().
Once there is consensus on how options should be
handled, it should be easy to add them back. We would
end up in the desired final state, but with an
inverted default: the OPFS Access Handle behavior is
the default one, and specific options would be needed
to use them in other file systems. Since the OPFS use
case is the one that has been proven with trials, and
the one that other browsers intend to implement for
now, I think it makes sense to leave it as the default.
To all:
Since we have to do code changes to remove the options
object, and since the spec still has to be rebased, I
wanted to change this request from shipment on 101 to
a gapless shipment on 102. I’ll keep working on those
two pending items and ping this thread when they are done.
Just to clarify, you're planning to run the OT till the
end of M101 and then gaplessly ship in M102?
Thanks!Emanuel
On Wed, Mar 30, 2022 at 3:01 PM Mike West
<mk...@chromium.org> wrote:
On Wed, Mar 23, 2022 at 5:48 PM Emanuel Krivoy
<fived...@chromium.org> wrote:
Hey Yoav,
So the plan is to land the PR in WICG, and
then (immediately) move it over to
https://fs.spec.whatwg.org/?
What are the current blockers for the WICG
PR from landing?
My plan would be to act on the current round
of feedback in the WICG PR and then move the
spec to its final home in WHATWG to finish the
review/merge there.
The situation is an artifact of me wanting to
do a quick round of feedback before investing
time in the rebase, just to make sure the spec
was going in the right direction. Now I think
it might have made things more confusing than
they should have been, sorry!
https://github.com/WICG/file-system-access/pull/344
doesn't seem to have moved in the last ~2 weeks,
and I don't see a new PR against the WHATWG spec.
What's y'all's timeline for finishing the
specification of this feature?
Have you tried running STP against the WPT
test suite? That could be reassuring
interop-wise
Thanks for the suggestion. After running the
WPTs, there seems to be some divergence with
the proposed spec. The most substantial one
(beyond some issues around the type of error
thrown) is that the implementation of
createSyncAccessHandle in Safari TP does not
take an options parameter.
The options parameter is there to (eventually)
allow using access handles on other
filesystems (i.e., from outside OPFS, in
particular on files hosted in the local file
system). This feature has been requested by
developers on various occasions, and would
make the File System Access API more flexible.
In our implementation, the options parameter
is required (as in, has to be provided when
calling createSyncAccessHandle) to avoid
setting the default behavior of access handles
to the particular one needed within OPFS.
Further context can be found in
https://github.com/whatwg/fs/issues/19.
I will go ahead and file the appropriate
bugs/contact the feature owner!
Thanks for doing this investigation! It does sound
like something we'd want to resolve before
shipping, as it would be unfortunate for this to
present a barrier to interop.
I didn't see a bug filed against webkit in a quick
search, can you follow up on that (or point it out
if I missed it)?
Thanks!
-mike
On Wed, Mar 23, 2022 at 5:39 AM Yoav Weiss
<yoavwe...@chromium.org> wrote:
Thanks for working on this important
capability!!
On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 5:24:08 PM
UTC+1 Emanuel Krivoy wrote:
Hello blink-dev, We'd like to
request a review on our intent
to ship Access Handles with
Chrome 101. Since we don't
envision changes to the
surface and it is currently in
use by Photoshop web, this
request comes one release
before our OT expires. Please
find the details below:
Contact emails
fived...@chromium.org, r...@chromium.org
Explainer
https://github.com/WICG/file-system-access/blob/main/AccessHandle.md
<https://github.com/WICG/file-system-access/blob/main/AccessHandle.md>
Specification
Out for review.
<https://github.com/WICG/file-system-access/pull/344/files>Will
be moved
<https://github.com/WICG/file-system-access/issues/342>to
WHATWG after replying to pending
comments.
So the plan is to land the PR in WICG, and
then (immediately) move it over to
https://fs.spec.whatwg.org/?
What are the current blockers for the WICG
PR from landing?
Summary
The Origin Private File System (OPFS,
part of the File System Access API) is
augmented with a new surface that
brings very performant access to data.
This new surface differs from existing
ones by offering in-place and
exclusive write access to a file’s
content. This change, along with the
ability to consistently read unflushed
modifications and the availability of
a synchronous variant on dedicated
workers, significantly improves
performance and unblocks new use cases
(especially for porting existing
IO-heavy applications to WebAssembly).
This Intent-to-Ship is only in
reference to the sync variant of the
API i.e., the
createSyncAccessHandle()method and the
SyncAccessHandleobject (only exposed
in worker contexts):
const handle = await
file.createSyncAccessHandle();
var writtenBytes = handle.write(buffer);
var readBytes = handle.read(buffer
{at: 1});
The sync variant is meant to be
consumed by low-level entities like
toolchains. We expect application
developers to prefer the async API
with its streaming interface which
will be shipped later.
AccessHandles is the new API shape for
what was previously called Storage
Foundation API (Intent-to-Experiment:
http://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/blink-dev/c/Jhirhnq3WbY
<http://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/blink-dev/c/Jhirhnq3WbY>).
Blink component
Blink>Storage>FileSystem
<https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/list?q=component:Blink%3EStorage%3EFileSystem>
TAG review
https://github.com/w3ctag/design-reviews/issues/664
<https://github.com/w3ctag/design-reviews/issues/664>
TAG review status
Issues addressed
Risks
Interoperability and Compatibility
The feature has to be compatible with
existing ways to access data on OPFS
i.e., createWritable()and getFile().
The use of write locks and care for
backwards compatibility should mean
that the risk here is low. In order to
ease compatibility concerns in the
future, we've added an optional 'mode'
parameter to
createAccessHandle()/createSyncAccessHandle().
This allows us to eventually extend
AccessHandlefunctionality to non-OPFS
file systems without necessarily
taking the OPFS behaviour as default
(more details
here:https://github.com/WICG/file-system-access/blob/main/AccessHandle.md#exposing-accesshandles-on-all-filesystems
<https://github.com/WICG/file-system-access/blob/main/AccessHandle.md#exposing-accesshandles-on-all-filesystems>).
There is a risk of interoperability
between vendors, pending the position
on implementing this surface. This
design is the result of feedback from
Gecko and WebKit, who reviewed
previous iterations of this
functionality and gave feedback that
it should integrate more strongly with
OPFS. We directly shared documents
outlining alternatives considered
<https://docs.google.com/document/d/121OZpRk7bKSF7qU3kQLqAEUVSNxqREnE98malHYwWec>,
and later our recommendation
<https://docs.google.com/document/d/1g7ZCqZ5NdiU7oqyCpsc2iZ7rRAY1ZXO-9VoG4LfP7fM>towards
this particular API shape.We believe
that the new design, when paired with
a separate streams-based extension to
OPFS, meets the goal of more strongly
integrating with the existing surface.
However, we have not yet received
replies to the position requests below.
Gecko: Worth Prototyping
(https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/562
<https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/562>)
WebKit: In development
(https://lists.webkit.org/pipermail/webkit-dev/2021-August/031934.html)
Request for position was not answered,
but the feature is being implemented
and is available in TP. See reference
bug:
https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=231185
Have you tried running STP against the WPT
test suite? That could be reassuring
interop-wise
Web developers: Positive
From our Storage Foundation OT, we
received very positive feedback on the
need for high performance storage, as
well as on the general shape of the API:
*
Adobe’s support statement (about
the need for the capability)
<https://github.com/WICG/proposals/issues/10#issuecomment-804145429>
*
absurd-sql’s mention
<https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/481#issuecomment-898061119>
*
Reception on Twitter after DevRel
announcement
<https://twitter.com/ChromiumDev/status/1405101909757902851>
Thanks for a very strong developer signal!
SyncAccessHandles have a very similar
shape to the surface that was exposed
in Storage Foundation’s Origin Trial.
It is currently a critical dependency
<https://web.dev/ps-on-the-web/#high-performance-storage>of
Photoshop Web. The Photoshop team has
confirmed that the current surface
covers their needs and that they have
no pending feedback/requests.
Ergonomics
As mentioned above, SyncAccessHandles
offer a very similar surface to the
one positively received during Storage
Foundation’s OT. The main differences
are the migration of file system
operations into OPFS and the
asynchronicity of auxiliary methods
(i.e. methods other than read and write).
Since many of our use cases require
good interoperability between this API
and Wasm, we’ve developed an
Emscripten file system
<https://github.com/rstz/emscripten-pthreadfs/tree/main/pthreadfs>that
allows ported applications to use
SyncAccessHandles. This simplifies
both activation and use, since the API
can be accessed through standard C/C++
file system libraries.
Security and Privacy
SyncAccessHandleshave received
approval for Security and Privacy in
our launch bug
<https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=1232436>.
Debuggability
Basic tooling: Autocomplete works as
described in "New WebIDL/DOM
interfaces and attributes".
Extended tooling: we'll eventually
want to be able to explore files
stored in OPFS. There are two tracking
bugs related to this:crbug.com/256067
<http://crbug.com/256067>andcrbug.com/735618
<http://crbug.com/735618>. This API
doesn't really add new storage
backends, just new ways to interact
with files, so we'd be covered by
those as well.
File System Access API usage is also
reflected in user settings pages such
as chrome://settings/siteData.
Is this feature fully tested
by web-platform-tests
<https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/master/docs/testing/web_platform_tests.md>?
Yes, we’ve added tests for all new
functionality, as well as for the
intersection between this surface and
existing parts of OPFS, e.g., we’ve
made sure that locking between
writables and access handles is correct.
Our test suite is also run against our
Incognito mode implementation, since
it is significantly different from the
regular mode one.wpt.fyi results:
wpt.fyi/results/file-system-access?label=master&label=experimental&aligned
<http://wpt.fyi/results/file-system-access?label=master&label=experimental&aligned>
Is this feature supported on
all six Blink platforms?
Not yet. File System Access API is not
yet available on Android or Android
WebView, but the Storage team has
expressed interest
<https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=1011535#c9>in
at least enabling OPFS once there is
more usage/cross-browser support.
Demo
The API has no UI component. An
example code snippet can be found here
<https://github.com/WICG/file-system-access/blob/access-handle-spec/AccessHandle.md#new-data-access-surface>.
DevTrial instructions
https://github.com/WICG/file-system-access/blob/main/AccessHandle.md#trying-it-out
<https://github.com/WICG/file-system-access/blob/main/AccessHandle.md#trying-it-out>
Flag name
FileSystemAccessAccessHandle
Requires code in //chrome?
False
Tracking bug
https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=1218431
<https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=1218431>
Launch bug
https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=1232436
<https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=1232436>
Estimated milestones
OriginTrial desktop last
102
OriginTrial desktop first
95
DevTrial on desktop
94
We aim to ship with 101.
Link to entry on the Chrome
Platform Status
https://chromestatus.com/feature/5702777582911488
<https://chromestatus.com/feature/5702777582911488>
Links to previous Intent
discussions
Intent to prototype:
https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/blink-dev/c/33T36N6VBKI
<https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/blink-dev/c/33T36N6VBKI>
Ready for Trial:
https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/blink-dev/c/_nB5VfgXW_I
<https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/blink-dev/c/_nB5VfgXW_I>
Intent to Experiment:
https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/blink-dev/c/-FVIvFovd3g/m/vUNm4X8UBAAJ
<https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/blink-dev/c/-FVIvFovd3g/m/vUNm4X8UBAAJ>
Intent to Extend Experiment:
https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAHExSGL4tBM-mH%2B-Cm7YtBiVMLLGrPMVxtCHYwG6PM_oG67hjw%40mail.gmail.com
<https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/cahexsgl4tbm-mh+-cm7ytbivmllgrpmvxtchywg6pm_og67...@mail.gmail.com>
This intent message was generated by
Chrome Platform Status
<https://www.chromestatus.com/>.
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