Hi, Joe. Thank you for your feedback.
On Thu, Aug 25, 2022 at 2:06 AM 'Joe Medley' via blink-dev < blink-dev@chromium.org> wrote: > I think you did everything as right as anyone could. Chrome Status is a > bit confusing when it comes to shipping milestones and flags. > > The only thing required for a finch experiment is the "Finch experiment:" > field, which takes a CR bug. Edit your feature, click "Edit all fields", > then search for the field. > > Anyone who might be reading this who works on a web platform feature > should stop reading this now. What I'm about to say doesn't apply to you. > > What's the rollout schedule for your finch flag? Will this be available to > 100% of Chrome users by the time 105 reaches stable (Aug 30)? I'm trying to > work out what you need to put in the milestone fields. I need more > information to do that. > We just follow the standard finch-backed rollout plan, but with multiple arms to evaluate performance gains. So, now we run 30% enabled experiments for Beta, and will start incremental stable launch from 1% through to 100% once m105 goes to stable and we complete the launch review, including this I2S step. We'd roll out speculation rules first, then roll out DUI based prerendering next with a separate finch config so that we can mitigate the risk and can understand which feature is the root cause when something wrong happens. I'm happy to hear more feedback from other blink-dev people and API owners! Thanks! > Joe Medley | Technical Writer, Chrome DevRel | jmed...@google.com | > 816-678-7195 <(816)%20678-7195> > *If an API's not documented it doesn't exist.* > > > On Wed, Aug 24, 2022 at 7:17 AM Angel Raposo <angelrap...@google.com> > wrote: > >> Hi Joe, >> >> We started the beta behind a finch flag with m105. >> Can you point me out to where I need to replace the DevTile milestone? >> I'm quite new on the role, helping the team on a 20% capacity so I may have >> misconfigured something in the Chromestatus entry before generating this >> template? >> >> Thanks, >> Angel. >> >> On Tue, Aug 23, 2022 at 11:49 PM Joe Medley <jmed...@google.com> wrote: >> >>> I think I know why I'm confused, please tell me if this is correct. Did >>> you label this as being behind a flag (DevTrial) because it's under a Finch >>> flag? The DevTile milestone fields do not apply to finch flags. >>> >>> In which version of beta did the Finch experiment start? >>> Joe Medley | Technical Writer, Chrome DevRel | jmed...@google.com | >>> 816-678-7195 <(816)%20678-7195> >>> *If an API's not documented it doesn't exist.* >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Aug 22, 2022 at 6:30 PM Angel Raposo <angelrap...@google.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Joe, >>>> >>>> Thanks for your questions, Let me share some background of the project >>>> situation: >>>> >>>> Prerender loads and renders high-likely to be visited web pages before >>>> the user actually navigates to them, based on different triggers. >>>> We've already launched a few triggers for Android in stable, e.g.: >>>> >>>> - *Direct URL Input >>>> >>>> <https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=1267731&q=prerender%20omnibox&can=1> >>>> (M101)*: >>>> as the user types the address in the Omnibar, the browser may choose to >>>> prerender a particular site if the user is very likely to browse it. >>>> This >>>> is fully approved and already active in stable for a small percentage of >>>> users and we are ramping up. >>>> - *Speculation rules >>>> <https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=1316557> (M103)*: >>>> site owners can hint pages, through the speculation rules API, that >>>> users >>>> are likely going to browse next. This is fully launched on stable for >>>> Android >>>> >>>> With this I2S, we are aiming to launch Prerender2 for Desktop which >>>> will enable the same approved triggers for Desktop. >>>> We already got the approval for beta >>>> <https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=1332400>, which >>>> is under a finch experiment right now with a percentage of users testing >>>> with positive results. >>>> >>>> Once we get the approval for stable, we'll work on a roll-out plan, >>>> incrementing slowly the percentage of users adopting the new feature. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Angel. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Aug 23, 2022 at 2:57 AM Joe Medley <jmed...@google.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Angel, >>>>> >>>>> Can you please clarify a few things for me. I'm trying to work out >>>>> whether this is eligible for listing in the beta announcement >>>>> <https://blog.chromium.org/search/label/beta>. >>>>> >>>>> You said this shipped in Android already. I only see that it is behind >>>>> a flag in Android. When was this enabled by default? The beta announcement >>>>> doesn't include items that require enabling via the command line or an >>>>> item >>>>> in chrome://flags. (This is what 'developer trial' refers to.) Items that >>>>> are enabled by default are included whether a flag is present or not. >>>>> >>>>> Given that information, can you please tell me what you're doing on >>>>> desktop? >>>>> >>>>> Also, did you mean to say you were shipping in 105? It goes to stable >>>>> in 8 days. Wouldn't you want this to be in beta first? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Joe >>>>> Joe Medley | Technical Writer, Chrome DevRel | jmed...@google.com | >>>>> 816-678-7195 <(816)%20678-7195> >>>>> *If an API's not documented it doesn't exist.* >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Aug 18, 2022 at 12:07 AM 'Angel Raposo' via blink-dev < >>>>> blink-dev@chromium.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Contact emails >>>>>> >>>>>> toyos...@chromium.org, angelrapo...@google.com >>>>>> >>>>>> Explainer >>>>>> >>>>>> This I2S aims to expand our efforts on Prerender2 (currently shipped >>>>>> only on Android) to Desktop. >>>>>> >>>>>> The full prerendering revamped explainer can be found at >>>>>> >>>>>> https://github.com/WICG/nav-speculation/blob/main/README.md >>>>>> >>>>>> Specification >>>>>> >>>>>> https://wicg.github.io/nav-speculation/prerendering.html >>>>>> >>>>>> Design docs >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EpLshvc9RRW3vswmXsJGrbCkhlFmxDsWfbvgxmYDTfs >>>>>> >>>>>> Summary >>>>>> >>>>>> Prerendering is “pre”-rendering, it’s about pre-loading and rendering >>>>>> a Web page before the user actually navigates to it. The main goal of >>>>>> prerendering is to make the next page navigation faster, or ideally >>>>>> nearly >>>>>> instant. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sites can inform the user agent about which pages the user may likely >>>>>> visit, by asking to trigger a ‘prerendering’ for a particular URL (e.g. >>>>>> user is at page A and will likely navigate to page B next). Once the >>>>>> prerender is triggered, the browser pre-fetches the main resource, >>>>>> instantiates a hidden page, and processes the main resource to fetch and >>>>>> process more subresources. >>>>>> >>>>>> After shipping Prerender2 for Android (I2S speculation rules >>>>>> triggered Prerender2 >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/blink-dev/c/EdW7O8yG7Jc/m/ypgp7pIjBAAJ?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>> and I2S for Omnibox triggered Prerender2 >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/blink-dev/c/ogegRwcRlcs/m/Aso1a0UcBgAJ>), >>>>>> we are now requesting approval to ship Prerender2 for Desktop. This >>>>>> release >>>>>> will enable the same triggers (speculation rules and Omnibox) for >>>>>> Desktop. >>>>>> >>>>>> With this feature, Chrome (Desktop) will start prerendering >>>>>> high-confidence URL suggestions provided by the page using speculation >>>>>> rules or directly by Omnibox. During the prerendering process, a page >>>>>> will >>>>>> process and construct the full DOM tree, including the execution of >>>>>> scripts >>>>>> (this differs from No-state Prefetch >>>>>> <https://developers.google.com/web/updates/2018/07/nostate-prefetch> >>>>>> which only prefetches resources and doesn’t execute scripts). >>>>>> >>>>>> Note that we are not shipping cross-origin prerendering, which allows >>>>>> a web page to prerender another page on a different origin. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Blink component >>>>>> >>>>>> Internals>Preload>Prerender >>>>>> <https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/list?q=component:Internals%3EPreload%3EPrerender> >>>>>> >>>>>> TAG review >>>>>> >>>>>> https://github.com/w3ctag/design-reviews/issues/667 >>>>>> >>>>>> TAG review status >>>>>> >>>>>> All issues have been addressed. >>>>>> >>>>>> Risks >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Interoperability and Compatibility >>>>>> >>>>>> Interoperability risk: this feature is focused on enabling Prerender >>>>>> on Desktop, which is already launched and available for Android. >>>>>> >>>>>> We believe that some browsers already have prerendering >>>>>> implementations which are not specified and may differ from each other, >>>>>> or >>>>>> not always exposed to the platform. Our vision is to produce a >>>>>> specification that can help improve interoperability. There is a risk >>>>>> that >>>>>> other browsers do not converge on a prerendering standard but we hope >>>>>> that >>>>>> we’ll be able to address legitimate concerns if any are raised by >>>>>> interested parties. >>>>>> >>>>>> Compatibility risk: this feature is focused on enabling Prerender on >>>>>> Desktop, which is already launched and available for Android. There are >>>>>> some use cases that will need to know whether a page is being prerendered >>>>>> by the user agent or navigated by the user, e.g. ads and analytics are >>>>>> likely examples of this which are supported by already launched features >>>>>> such as `document.prerendering` which lets a page know that it’s being >>>>>> prerendered. >>>>>> >>>>>> Chrome Extensions have abilities to interact with web contents and >>>>>> have widely used API surfaces. We’ve been keeping in mind compatibility >>>>>> with Extensions’ compatibility, including giving enough capability for >>>>>> Extensions to properly support Prerender2 [1]. >>>>>> >>>>>> A similar concern applies to (P)NaCl/PPAPI. However, these plugins >>>>>> are on a deprecation path. In the meantime, given that NaCl permits the >>>>>> page to perform powerful operations, we are taking the safe route by >>>>>> canceling prerendering if it triggers a request to load a NaCl module. >>>>>> >>>>>> [1] >>>>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EpLshvc9RRW3vswmXsJGrbCkhlFmxDsWfbvgxmYDTfs/edit >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Gecko: When we launched Prerender2 for Android, we had some informal >>>>>> positive discussion with Gecko engineers on the HTML Standard issue >>>>>> tracker >>>>>> <https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/7533#issuecomment-1022051187> >>>>>> and in the HTML triage call >>>>>> <https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/7488#issuecomment-1029510684>; >>>>>> formal positions request here: >>>>>> https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/613 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> WebKit: WebKit already ships URL-bar triggered prerendering, but not >>>>>> any APIs for letting pages know about it, and it's unclear what strategy >>>>>> they are using to prohibit disruptive behaviors for prerendered pages. >>>>>> When >>>>>> we launched Prerender2 for Android, we reached out for a formal positions >>>>>> request here in the hopes of moving toward interoperability: >>>>>> https://lists.webkit.org/pipermail/webkit-dev/2022-February/032113.html >>>>>> >>>>>> Web developers: When we launched Prerender2 for Android, we received >>>>>> positive feedback from initial web developers testing the speculation >>>>>> rules >>>>>> triggers (see https://github.com/WICG/proposals/issues/2 for >>>>>> positive sentiments on speculation rules triggered). >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Other signals: When we launched Prerender2 for Android we created a >>>>>> public request for feedback published ( >>>>>> https://web.dev/speculative-prerendering/#feedback-welcome) which is >>>>>> currently being managed through: >>>>>> https://github.com/WICG/nav-speculation/issues >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Ergonomics >>>>>> >>>>>> This feature is triggered by the speculation rules API >>>>>> <https://chromestatus.com/feature/5740655424831488> and Omnibox. We >>>>>> don't anticipate any conflict with other Platform APIs. >>>>>> >>>>>> IT admins can disable Prerender2 via the existing group policy >>>>>> "NetworkPredictionOptions" >>>>>> >>>>>> We are shipping the same web-exposed APIs previously launched on >>>>>> Android: document.prerendering, prerenderingchange event and >>>>>> performanceEntry.activationStart timing. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Activation >>>>>> >>>>>> There are two mechanisms to trigger a prerender: >>>>>> (1) Speculation rules in which developers can immediately take >>>>>> advantage of this feature by defining suggestions that the user agent >>>>>> will >>>>>> take into consideration when deciding if a page is likely going to be >>>>>> browsed next. >>>>>> >>>>>> (2) Omnibox where the user agent decides if an URL should be >>>>>> prerendered according to different heuristics. >>>>>> Both of these triggers are already shipped for Android. With this >>>>>> request, we want to allow Desktop to also trigger Prerender2 in the same >>>>>> scenarios. >>>>>> >>>>>> The feature should just work for most existing pages but developers >>>>>> should be aware of restrictions on prerendering content (they cannot play >>>>>> audio or perform other disruptive behavior, etc.). As we grow our reach >>>>>> of >>>>>> navigations by enabling the Desktop version, we will pay special >>>>>> attention >>>>>> to the documentation available to developers. >>>>>> >>>>>> We’ve also paid close attention to extensions. We believe that >>>>>> extensions shouldn’t be affected by this feature as the restricted >>>>>> features >>>>>> are deferred behind a Promise resolution, and many extensions appear to >>>>>> just work transparently. >>>>>> >>>>>> To report breakages in extensions developers have two options: they >>>>>> can comment on the extensions related compatibility issue at >>>>>> https://crbug.com/1351312, or they can discuss the desired API >>>>>> surface in the mail group: >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/chromium-extensions. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Security >>>>>> >>>>>> We are scaling an already shipped feature in Android to cover >>>>>> Desktop. >>>>>> >>>>>> The speculation rules API was the first use of the Multiple-Page >>>>>> Architecture, which is a significant change to Chromium's internals. Both >>>>>> MPArch and the speculation rules API underwent significant security >>>>>> review. From >>>>>> a web-exposed perspective, the security and privacy concerns are smaller, >>>>>> because this feature is restricted to the same-origin case only. WebView >>>>>> application risks >>>>>> >>>>>> Prerendering is not supported on WebView and doesn’t deprecate or >>>>>> change behavior of existing APIs directly. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Debuggability >>>>>> >>>>>> We are actively talking to the DevTools team about adding general >>>>>> Prerender support to it [metabug >>>>>> <https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=1217029>] >>>>>> with a current focus in providing meaningful debugging messages. >>>>>> The current MVP is to reveal the status of prerendered pages so web >>>>>> developers can know if prerendering succeeded or not. >>>>>> >>>>>> See [this document >>>>>> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YEAfcuBjwlJn7GG6po8AFteObG15r9ro63fdFfcMvoI/edit>] >>>>>> for our longer-term plan for improving the experience of debugging >>>>>> prerendering with DevTools. >>>>>> >>>>>> Prerendered pages are also visible in chrome://process-internals. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Will this feature be supported on all six Blink platforms (Windows, >>>>>> Mac, Linux, Chrome OS, Android, and Android WebView)? >>>>>> >>>>>> No. Prerender2 was originally shipped on Android. This Intent expands >>>>>> it to cover Windows, Mac, Linux, and Chrome OS. It remains disabled on >>>>>> Android WebView. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Is this feature fully tested by web-platform-tests >>>>>> <https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/main/docs/testing/web_platform_tests.md> >>>>>> ? >>>>>> >>>>>> We have written a lot of web platform tests using speculation rules >>>>>> as the trigger: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> https://wpt.fyi/results/speculation-rules/prerender?label=experimental&label=master&aligned >>>>>> >>>>>> Flag name >>>>>> >>>>>> Prerender2 >>>>>> >>>>>> Requires code in //chrome? >>>>>> >>>>>> True >>>>>> >>>>>> Tracking bug >>>>>> >>>>>> https://crbug.com/1278141 >>>>>> >>>>>> Launch bug >>>>>> >>>>>> https://crbug.com/1332400 >>>>>> >>>>>> Estimated milestones >>>>>> >>>>>> DevTrial on desktop >>>>>> >>>>>> 105 >>>>>> >>>>>> DevTrial on Android >>>>>> >>>>>> Already shipped on 103 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Anticipated spec changes >>>>>> >>>>>> With this I2S we are aiming to scale already shipped APIs to Desktop. >>>>>> >>>>>> When we shipped the speculation rules, we reviewed all the current >>>>>> pending discussions >>>>>> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1eFY7RMoeG7Mdhon9yLs6hKSfi6DYrASBPM-31hWXPDg/edit> >>>>>> and all of them were resolved with the initial launch without causing >>>>>> compatibility issues. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Link to entry on the Chrome Platform Status >>>>>> >>>>>> https://chromestatus.com/feature/5197044678393856 >>>>>> >>>>>> Links to previous Intent discussions >>>>>> >>>>>> Intent to prototype: >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAFWCB1n7W-gfr9b8FTNtB1bNDnYJ_%3DkSfWiY%2BtfGyqjuXe52zA%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAFWCB1n7W-gfr9b8FTNtB1bNDnYJ_=ksfwiy+tfgyqjuxe5...@mail.gmail.com> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> This intent message was generated by Chrome Platform Status >>>>>> <https://chromestatus.com/>. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Angel Raposo | Engagement Manager | angelrap...@google.com | >>>>>> Google Japan G.K. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> This email may be confidential or privileged. If you received this >>>>>> communication by mistake, please don't forward it to anyone else, please >>>>>> erase all copies and attachments, and please let me know that it went to >>>>>> the wrong person. Thanks. >>>>>> >>>>>> The above terms reflect a potential business arrangement, are >>>>>> provided solely as a basis for further discussion, and are not intended >>>>>> to >>>>>> be and do not constitute a legally binding obligation. No legally >>>>>> binding >>>>>> obligations will be created, implied, or inferred until an agreement in >>>>>> final form is executed in writing by all parties involved. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> もし、このメッセージが誤って貴殿に送信されたと思われる場合には、機密情報を含んでいる可能性もありますので、どなたにも転送せず、添付ファイルも含めて削除していただくとともに、発信者にその旨をお伝えいただきますようお願いいたします。 >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. >>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAA9vRHy7_o1ftcTz2-pC5rOPtZRhas5PGLw4HJ--v%2Bewkvcoww%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAA9vRHy7_o1ftcTz2-pC5rOPtZRhas5PGLw4HJ--v%2Bewkvcoww%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Angel Raposo | Engagement Manager | angelrap...@google.com | >>>> Google Japan G.K. >>>> >>>> >>>> This email may be confidential or privileged. If you received this >>>> communication by mistake, please don't forward it to anyone else, please >>>> erase all copies and attachments, and please let me know that it went to >>>> the wrong person. Thanks. >>>> >>>> The above terms reflect a potential business arrangement, are provided >>>> solely as a basis for further discussion, and are not intended to be and do >>>> not constitute a legally binding obligation. No legally binding >>>> obligations will be created, implied, or inferred until an agreement in >>>> final form is executed in writing by all parties involved. >>>> >>>> >>>> もし、このメッセージが誤って貴殿に送信されたと思われる場合には、機密情報を含んでいる可能性もありますので、どなたにも転送せず、添付ファイルも含めて削除していただくとともに、発信者にその旨をお伝えいただきますようお願いいたします。 >>>> >>> >> >> -- >> Angel Raposo | Engagement Manager | angelrap...@google.com | >> Google Japan G.K. >> >> >> This email may be confidential or privileged. If you received this >> communication by mistake, please don't forward it to anyone else, please >> erase all copies and attachments, and please let me know that it went to >> the wrong person. Thanks. >> >> The above terms reflect a potential business arrangement, are provided >> solely as a basis for further discussion, and are not intended to be and do >> not constitute a legally binding obligation. No legally binding >> obligations will be created, implied, or inferred until an agreement in >> final form is executed in writing by all parties involved. >> >> >> もし、このメッセージが誤って貴殿に送信されたと思われる場合には、機密情報を含んでいる可能性もありますので、どなたにも転送せず、添付ファイルも含めて削除していただくとともに、発信者にその旨をお伝えいただきますようお願いいたします。 >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "blink-dev" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAJUhtG_mChsefDmx88PxMCy_gyCcHm%2BPzKXDy51VOe5HvMczag%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAJUhtG_mChsefDmx88PxMCy_gyCcHm%2BPzKXDy51VOe5HvMczag%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- Takashi Toyoshima Software Engineer, Google -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "blink-dev" group. 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