LGTM3 but please invest a bit of time before shipping to make sure bikeshedding isn't in the future here.
Specifically, I hear that HTTPWG folks are pushing for a compression dictionary rename of its match functionality from "search" to "query". It'd be good to ensure that won't be a hurdle this feature would run into further down that same road. On Fri, Nov 10, 2023 at 9:44 AM Domenic Denicola <dome...@chromium.org> wrote: > > > 2023年11月10日(金) 17:14 Yoav Weiss <yoavwe...@chromium.org>: > >> >> >> On Thu, Nov 9, 2023 at 2:46 AM Domenic Denicola <dome...@chromium.org> >> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Nov 9, 2023 at 12:44 AM Yoav Weiss <yoavwe...@chromium.org> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Thanks for working on this, as I'm enthusiastically supportive of >>>> tackling this use case! >>>> >>>> One thing I wish y'all have done, and that I haven't seen any evidence >>>> of (but please correct me if I'm wrong) is discuss this design with the >>>> HTTPWG at the IETF. >>>> That is feedback that I believe you got at TPAC 22, as well as on the >>>> TAG review. >>>> While this is not strictly blocking this intent (as the prefetch cache >>>> is a web concept), as the explainer rightfully states, this is a concept >>>> that can very well be expanded to encompass HTTP caches, both inside and >>>> outside the browser. It'd be great if that eventual expansion is compatible >>>> with the prefetch cache. >>>> >>>> Would y'all be open to bringing the design to discussion at the HTTPWG, >>>> and potentially move the header's semantic definition there? (while >>>> eventually moving the web processing model to a web standards venue) >>>> >>>> +David Schinazi <dschin...@google.com> for his thoughts on the above >>>> >>> >>> Hi Yoav, >>> >>> We're very open to discussing this with the HTTPWG, and have had >>> informal discussions with HTTPWG members at TPAC and other venues. >>> >> >> That's great to hear! >> >> >>> Our plan was to do so as part of graduation from incubation, and/or as >>> this expanded beyond the preloading caches into the network stack. See >>> https://wicg.github.io/nav-speculation/no-vary-search.html#status-and-venue >>> . >>> >>> The IETF process is outside of the preloading teams' expertise, and (as >>> you noted) the IETF's layers of the technology stack are not involved in >>> what's being shipped here. >>> >> >> I agree. One concern on that front is that HTTPWG discussions would >> result in non-backwards-compatible changes to the related headers, or even >> result in divergence. It'd be a shame if we end up with multiple headers >> that do the same thing in different caching layers. >> >> At the same time, I don't think there's a need to block this intent on >> that process, assuming y'all would be willing to ensure such divergence >> does not happen. (either by satisfying the HTTP cache use cases through >> backwards compatible changes, or by taking a compat hit if needed) >> >> Would this work for y'all? >> > > Yes, we're definitely willing to ensure this. Thanks for raising the > concern! > > >> >>> But if you'd like to see such engagement before we get to incubation >>> graduation or start the networking implementation, then we'd love your help >>> making those connections and working through the process! >>> >> >> Generally I think engaging earlier would be better. Happy to intro and >> outline the IETF process. +Patrick Meenan <pmee...@google.com> and David >> are also likely to have contacts and insights. >> >> >>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Nov 8, 2023 at 4:20 PM Daniel Bratell <bratel...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> LGTM2 >>>>> >>>>> /Daniel >>>>> On 2023-11-07 01:57, Mike Taylor wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Thanks Liviu. >>>>> >>>>> I've spent some time today reviewing the explainer and spec, and find >>>>> the use cases compelling. >>>>> >>>>> LGTM1 to ship. A non-blocking request would be to add the security & >>>>> privacy considerations from the explainer into the draft WICG spec (or >>>>> something similar). >>>>> >>>>> (Also, kudos to all who contributed to the explainer - it's very >>>>> thorough and answered every question I had as I began to review in depth. >>>>> Excellent work.) >>>>> On 11/6/23 5:08 PM, Liviu Tinta wrote: >>>>> >>>>> > Are there any open issues that would result in breaking changes, >>>>> after we ship? >>>>> >>>>> There are 2 open issues related to No-Vary-Search: >>>>> https://github.com/WICG/nav-speculation/labels/no-vary-search. None >>>>> of the open issues requires modifying No-Vary-Search header. We are not >>>>> expecting breaking changes after we ship. >>>>> >>>>> On Monday, November 6, 2023 at 1:43:06 PM UTC-5 Mike Taylor wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On 11/1/23 9:59 AM, Liviu Tinta wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Contact emails dome...@chromium.org, jbro...@chromium.org, >>>>>> liviuti...@chromium.org >>>>>> >>>>>> Explainer >>>>>> https://github.com/WICG/nav-speculation/blob/main/no-vary-search.md >>>>>> >>>>>> Specification >>>>>> https://wicg.github.io/nav-speculation/no-vary-search.html >>>>>> >>>>>> Summary >>>>>> >>>>>> Enables prefetch to match even if URL query parameters change. The >>>>>> No-Vary-Search HTTP response header declares that some or all parts of a >>>>>> URL's query can be ignored for cache matching purposes. It can declare >>>>>> that >>>>>> the order of query parameter keys should not cause cache misses, that >>>>>> specific query parameters should not cause cache misses or that only >>>>>> certain known query parameters should cause cache misses. It could apply >>>>>> to >>>>>> multiple caches, but this entry refers to support for prefetch cache. >>>>>> >>>>>> We would like to ship "No-Vary-Search support in navigation prefetch >>>>>> cache" together with "No-Vary-Search Hint for Prefetch Speculation >>>>>> Rules" (https://chromestatus.com/feature/4887338302308352). >>>>>> >>>>>> Blink component Internals>Preload >>>>>> <https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/list?q=component:Internals%3EPreload> >>>>>> >>>>>> TAG review https://github.com/w3ctag/design-reviews/issues/797 >>>>>> >>>>>> TAG review status Positive. >>>>>> >>>>>> Chromium Trial Name NoVarySearchPrefetch >>>>>> >>>>>> Link to origin trial feedback summary >>>>>> https://github.com/WICG/nav-speculation/issues >>>>>> >>>>>> Are there any open issues that would result in breaking changes, >>>>>> after we ship? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Origin Trial documentation link >>>>>> https://developer.chrome.com/origintrials/#/view_trial/4146689356901384193 >>>>>> >>>>>> Risks >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Interoperability and Compatibility >>>>>> >>>>>> *Gecko*: No signal ( >>>>>> https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/717) >>>>>> >>>>>> *WebKit*: No signal ( >>>>>> https://github.com/WebKit/standards-positions/issues/106) >>>>>> >>>>>> *Web developers*: Google Search has been experimenting with >>>>>> No-Vary-Search >>>>>> header / Speculation Rules "expects_no_vary_search". This functionality >>>>>> helps Google Search to match prefetched content to the next user >>>>>> navigation. Developers can use parameters in the prefetched URL that are >>>>>> not needed when navigating to the actual link (e.g. the source of the >>>>>> link >>>>>> click). The server can customize behavior using these parameters without >>>>>> causing a cache miss in the browser. >>>>>> "expects_no_vary_search" addition to Speculation Rules allows the >>>>>> browser to completely handle the case where the user navigates to a URL >>>>>> that is currently prefetched by waiting for the ongoing prefetch instead >>>>>> of >>>>>> directly requesting the page from the server. >>>>>> Google Search conducted experiments prefetching Search results pages >>>>>> from the search box and other links that lead to another Search results >>>>>> page. There was significant latency improvement for navigating to Search >>>>>> result pages prefetched using No-Vary-Search header and >>>>>> "expects_no_vary_search". >>>>>> >>>>>> *Other signals*: No-Vary-Search header has been discussed, together >>>>>> with No-Vary-Search Hint for Prefetch Speculation Rules at Web Perf >>>>>> WG meeting at TPAC 2023 >>>>>> <https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1GK92nCORW5vKd7LgGtTsgy35eqTV7P71l05pHsni8ok/edit#slide=id.g240fd6541f7_0_31> >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>>> Ergonomics >>>>>> >>>>>> No-Vary-Search will be used in tandem with Speculation Rules ( >>>>>> https://wicg.github.io/nav-speculation/speculation-rules.html). The >>>>>> default usage of No-Vary-Search will not make it hard for Chrome to >>>>>> maintain good performance. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Activation >>>>>> >>>>>> It will not be challenging for developers to take advantage of this >>>>>> feature immediately. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Security >>>>>> >>>>>> See: >>>>>> https://github.com/WICG/nav-speculation/blob/main/no-vary-search-security-privacy-questionnaire.md >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> WebView application risks >>>>>> >>>>>> Does this intent deprecate or change behavior of existing APIs, such >>>>>> that it has potentially high risk for Android WebView-based applications? >>>>>> >>>>>> None >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Debuggability >>>>>> >>>>>> The website owner can debug the feature in DevTools by making sure >>>>>> that, when navigating to a prefetched page by using a URL that matches >>>>>> under No-Vary-Search conditions, the navigation happens from the prefetch >>>>>> cache by looking at the Size column in the Network tab. In case of >>>>>> success, >>>>>> when hovering over the Size column in the Network tab of Dev Tools, they >>>>>> should see: "Served from prefetch cache, resource size: yyyB". >>>>>> >>>>>> No-Vary-Search header value for the prefetch is available on the >>>>>> Network tab. Developers can also use the preloading panel ( >>>>>> https://crbug.com/1361483) which shows all ongoing preloads. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Will this feature be supported on all six Blink platforms (Windows, >>>>>> Mac, Linux, Chrome OS, Android, and Android WebView)? Yes >>>>>> >>>>>> Is this feature fully tested by web-platform-tests >>>>>> <https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/main/docs/testing/web_platform_tests.md> >>>>>> ? Yes >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> https://wpt.fyi/results/speculation-rules/prefetch/no-vary-search?label=experimental&label=master&aligned >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Flag name on chrome://flags >>>>>> >>>>>> Finch feature name NoVarySearchPrefetch >>>>>> >>>>>> Requires code in //chrome? False >>>>>> >>>>>> Tracking bug >>>>>> https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=1378075 >>>>>> >>>>>> Non-OSS dependencies >>>>>> >>>>>> Does the feature depend on any code or APIs outside the Chromium open >>>>>> source repository and its open-source dependencies to function? >>>>>> No. >>>>>> >>>>>> Estimated milestones >>>>>> Shipping on desktop 121 >>>>>> OriginTrial desktop last 120 >>>>>> OriginTrial desktop first 110 >>>>>> DevTrial on desktop 110 >>>>>> Shipping on Android 121 >>>>>> OriginTrial Android last 120 >>>>>> OriginTrial Android first 110 >>>>>> DevTrial on Android 110 >>>>>> Shipping on WebView 121 >>>>>> OriginTrial webView last 120 >>>>>> OriginTrial webView first 110 >>>>>> >>>>>> Anticipated spec changes >>>>>> >>>>>> Open questions about a feature may be a source of future web compat >>>>>> or interop issues. Please list open issues (e.g. links to known github >>>>>> issues in the project for the feature specification) whose resolution may >>>>>> introduce web compat/interop risk (e.g., changing to naming or structure >>>>>> of >>>>>> the API in a non-backward-compatible way). >>>>>> >>>>>> None. >>>>>> >>>>>> Link to entry on the Chrome Platform Status >>>>>> https://chromestatus.com/feature/5071247189213184 >>>>>> >>>>>> Links to previous Intent discussions Intent to prototype: >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAHaAqYKutrvgMxR%3DnfAQOfBHNJo9ifrmFRSbiE0heDyeW0uKJA%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> Intent to Experiment: >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAHaAqYLGT%2BV3_u_oumjHCZD05RRYY5guMjz1vb7501sNF1CANg%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>> Intent to Extend Experiment: >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/blink-dev/c/7oMlGWmVv2Q/m/B2PACBSnBgAJ >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. >>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAHaAqYKL2psmkYpQQ6KjrM_41yt8f%3DvH_-m0%3DT4idWT4zSumHw%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAHaAqYKL2psmkYpQQ6KjrM_41yt8f%3DvH_-m0%3DT4idWT4zSumHw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. >>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/b878e749-5d1a-4205-8612-3bd36db82fb3%40chromium.org >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/b878e749-5d1a-4205-8612-3bd36db82fb3%40chromium.org?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. >>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/265d9c2a-08fc-4ee8-b1ec-f125a910c91f%40gmail.com >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/265d9c2a-08fc-4ee8-b1ec-f125a910c91f%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAL5BFfVT%2BDdvQL0hxDM9SW2PkfC7c%3DSw3FB6CC0a%2BSrseNT-Jg%40mail.gmail.com >>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAL5BFfVT%2BDdvQL0hxDM9SW2PkfC7c%3DSw3FB6CC0a%2BSrseNT-Jg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> >>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "blink-dev" group. 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