On 29 Aug, 2014, at 5:37 pm, Jerry Jongerius wrote: >> did you check to see if packets were re-sent even if they weren't lost? on of >> the side effects of excessive buffering is that it's possible for a packet to >> be held in the buffer long enough that the sender thinks that it's been >> lost and retransmits it, so the packet is effectivly 'lost' even if it >> actually >> arrives at it's destination. > > Yes. A duplicate packet for the missing packet is not seen. > > The receiver 'misses' a packet; starts sending out tons of dup acks (for all > packets in flight and queued up due to bufferbloat), and then way later, the > packet does come in (after the RTT caused by bufferbloat; indicating it is > the 'resent' packet).
I think I've cracked this one - the cause, if not the solution. Let's assume, for the moment, that Jerry is correct and PowerBoost plays no part in this. That implies that the flow is not using the full bandwidth after the loss, *and* that the additive increase of cwnd isn't sufficient to recover to that point within the test period. There *is* a sequence of events that can lead to that happening: 1) Packet is lost, at the tail end of the bottleneck queue. 2) Eventually, receiver sees the loss and starts sending duplicate acks (each triggering CA_EVENT_SLOW_ACK path in the sender). Sender (running Westwood+) assumes that each of these represents a received, full-size packet, for bandwidth estimation purposes. 3) The receiver doesn't send, or the sender doesn't receive, a duplicate ack for every packet actually received. Maybe some firewall sees a large number of identical packets arriving - without SACK or timestamps, they *would* be identical - and filters some of them. The bandwidth estimate therefore becomes significantly lower than the true value, and additionally the RTO fires and causes the sender to reset cwnd to 1 (CA_EVENT_LOSS). 4) The retransmitted packet finally reaches the receiver, and the ack it sends includes all the data received in the meantime (about 3.5MB). This is not sufficient to immediately reset the bandwidth estimate to the true value, because the BWE is sampled at RTT intervals, and also includes low-pass filtering. 5) This ends the recovery phase (CA_EVENT_CWR_COMPLETE), and the sender resets the slow-start threshold to correspond to the estimated delay-bandwidth product (MinRTT * BWE) at that moment. 6) This estimated DBP is lower than the true value, so the subsequent slow-start phase ends with the cwnd inadequately sized. Additive increase would eventually correct that - but the key word is *eventually*. - Jonathan Morton _______________________________________________ Bloat mailing list Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat
