Hi Jonathan,


> On Dec 1, 2019, at 20:27, Jonathan Morton <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
>> On 1 Dec, 2019, at 9:03 pm, Sebastian Moeller <[email protected]> wrote:
>> 
>>> If less feedback is observed by the sender than intended by the AQM, growth 
>>> will continue and the AQM will increase its marking to compensate, 
>>> ultimately resorting to a CE mark.  
>> 
>> Well, that seems undesirable?
> 
> As a safety valve, getting a CE mark is greatly preferable to losing 
> congestion control entirely, or incurring a packet loss as the other 
> alternative congestion signal.

        Well, yes, I fully agree, I was referring to the "less feedback is 
observed by the sender than intended" part; I think it is great that SCE is 
safe by design in this regard.


>  It would only happen if the SCE signal or feedback were seriously disrupted 
> or entirely erased - the latter being the *normal* state of affairs when 
> either endpoint is not SCE aware in the first place.
> 
>> Am I right to assume that the fault tolerance requires a relative steady ACK 
>> stream though?
> 
> It only needs to be sufficient to keep the TCP stream flowing.  If the acks 
> are bursty, that's a separate problem in which it doesn't really matter if 
> they're all present or not.  And technically, the one-bit feedback mechanism 
> is capable of precisely reflecting a sparse sequence of SCE marks using just 
> two acks per mark.
> 
>> I fully agree that if ACK thinning is performed it really should be careful 
>> to not loose information when doing its job, but SCE hopefully can deal with 
>> whatever is out in the field today (I am looking at you DOCSIS uplinks...), 
>> no?
> 
> Right, that's the essence of the above discussion about relative feedback 
> error, which is the sort of thing that random ack loss or unprincipled ack 
> thinning is likely to introduce.

        "unprincipled ack thinning" nice description.


> 
> Meanwhile, an ack filter that avoids dropping acks in which the reserved flag 
> bits differ from its successor will not lose any information in the one-bit 
> scheme.  This is what's implemented in Cake (except that not all the reserved 
> bits are covered yet, only the one we use).

        So, to show my lack of knowledge, basically a pure change in sequence 
number is acceptable, any other differences should trigger ACK conservation 
instead of filtering?

Best Regards
        Sebastian

> 
> - Jonathan Morton
> 

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