I suggest moving further up the stack - any random Zoomer or gamer understands that Application Lag is a bad thing. Furthermore statements of the form "Lag is most often caused by LUL or even BB" are likely to be true without caveat.
Inverting the statement "BB causes LAG (or even LUL)" are less generally true because the vast majority of queues in the internet are drop tail, protected by adjacent managed queues (e.g. all of the queues in switch fabrics within a chassi are protected my managed queues at the input/output cards). Statements of causality up the stack are almost always vague and inaccurate or precise and too complicated. I agree with your colleague that since people don't understand micro bursts, they assume links that are underloaded in the average are unloaded. (But note that this issue is an artifact of self clocked protocols, and may change as more paced CC rolls out). So my vote would be [Working] Application Lag, just to move a little further up the stack. Thanks, --MM-- The best way to predict the future is to create it. - Alan Kay We must not tolerate intolerance; however our response must be carefully measured: too strong would be hypocritical and risks spiraling out of control; too weak risks being mistaken for tacit approval. On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 5:02 PM Livingood, Jason via Bloat <bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > > Like many of you I have been immersed in buffer bloat discussions for many > years, almost entirely within the technical community. Now that I am starting > to explain latency & latency under load to internal non-technical folks, I > have noticed some people don’t really understand “traditional” latency vs. > latency under load (LUL). > > > > As a result, I am planning to experiment in some upcoming briefings and call > traditional latency “idle latency” – a measure of latency conducted on an > otherwise idle connection. And then try calling LUL either “active latency” > or perhaps “working latency” (suggested by an external colleague – can’t take > credit for that one) – to try to communicate it is latency when the > connection is experiencing normal usage. > > > > Have any of you here faced similar challenges explaining this to > non-technical audiences? Have you had any success with alternative terms? > What do you think of these? > > > > Thanks for any input, > > Jason > > _______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat _______________________________________________ Bloat mailing list Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat