Hi. How do I change the size limit of attachments I receive?
----- Original Message -----
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Date sent: Sat, 13 Aug 2011 12:00:03 +1200
Subject: Braillenote Digest, Vol 2776, Issue 1
Send Braillenote mailing list submissions to
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Apex QT with IOS Devices (Alex Hall)
2. BrailleNotes and iOS (Grant Hardy)
3. Re: BrailleNotes and iOS (Catherine Turner)
4. Re: BrailleNotes and iOS (Alex Hall)
5. Re: BrailleNotes and iOS (Grant Hardy)
6. Re: Apex QT with IOS Devices (Rick Lewis)
7. Re: Apex QT with IOS Devices (Rick Lewis)
8. Re: Apex QT with IOS Devices (Joseph Lee)
9. Re: BrailleNotes and iOS (Alex Hall)
10. Re: BrailleNotes and iOS (Timothy Clark)
-----------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2011 20:21:36 -0400
From: Alex Hall <[email protected]
Subject: Re: [Braillenote] Apex QT with IOS Devices
To: [email protected]
Message-ID:
<[email protected]
ail.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Thank you for the clarification and news of a definite fix from
Humanware. I apologize to HW for my harsh comments on this
topic, but
I hope you (hw) can understand the confusion over whose fault the
incompatibility was. After all, a similar problem happened a
couple
years back with a jaws driver, with hw blaming fs when I called
them,
but fs blaming hw when I checked with fs. I will certainly email
[email protected] to request that they fully support QT
apex
models, and I urge you all to do the same, even if you (like me)
do
not actually use a qt. After all, the more support a company
sees for
a suggestion, the more they will do to implement it, hopefully.
Who
knows, iOS5 may have already fixed this and everyone will be
happy
once it comes out, hopefully this fall.
On 8/11/11, Alex Bec <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi,
I'll give a few insights into the context of this Apex QT vs
Braille
Terminal issue to complete Joseph's comprehensive summary.
Up until 9.1, in the Braille Terminal, the QT models were forced
to
operate as Perkins keyboards using the home row, so both models
were
essentially behaving in a similar way. With 9.1 the QT was
allowed to
operate as a QT so as to improve the user experience with the
recent
versions of JAWS that support this. Unfortunately, this had the
unintended consequences that you didn't fail to notice and that
we
somehow failed to foresee at that time.
So as far as Apple is concerned, yes, if they could extend their
driver
to support the enhanced Braille terminal protocol with pass
through of
QT commands, then that would work "as well" as on JAWS. I
believe the
specs of the protocol have been exchanged and/or are quite open
standards, so it's a matter of time for this to happen. But
it's indeed
up to Apple to do this part, as pointed by Dominic, and this
applies to
GW Micro and others. As for brltty and brlAPI, I suspect these
are open
projects that could get updated too with a bit of work.
In the meantime, on our side, we've restored a way to get the QT
to
operate in Perkins mode in the Braille Terminal so that it
should behave
the way it was pre-9.1. It is in the pipe, and here again, just
a matter
of patience before it is available to you, and eventually,
you'll be
able to select whichever mode works best with your (changing)
environment, and get the most of it.
Cheers,
Alex
________________________________
Alex BEC
Software Design Engineer
HumanWare
Christchurch, New Zealand
S: alexandrebec
IP phone: 344
www.humanware.com <http://www.humanware.com/
................................................................
......
................................................................
......
.........................
The power is in your hands
___
Replies to this message will go directly to the sender.
If your reply would be useful to the list, please send a
copy to the list as well.
To leave the BrailleNote list, send a blank message to
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To view the list archives or change your preferences, visit
http://list.humanware.com/mailman/listinfo/braillenote
--
Have a great day,
Alex (msg sent from GMail website)
[email protected]; http://www.facebook.com/mehgcap
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2011 21:55:49 -0700
From: Grant Hardy <[email protected]
Subject: [Braillenote] BrailleNotes and iOS
To: BrailleNote mailing list <[email protected]
Message-ID:
<[email protected]
ail.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Hi, all,
I have a BrailleNote mPower. I've never been able to use my
iPhone as
a Braille display, nor tether using Bluetooth and my iPhone's
internet
connection. Is it at all possible to do either of these things
on the
mPower?
Now, on a separate note, I currently have the opportunity to
evaluate
and test out a BrailleNote Apex for a few days. While I'm able
to use
the iPhone as a Braille display, I'm not able to tether the
BrailleNote to my iPhone's internet connection. Is this at all
possible?
Grant
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 06:30:12 +0100
From: Catherine Turner <[email protected]
Subject: Re: [Braillenote] BrailleNotes and iOS
To: Grant Hardy <[email protected]
Cc: BrailleNote mailing list <[email protected]
Message-ID:
<[email protected]
ail.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
I think whether or not you can tether your IPhone to other
devices
depends on whether it has been unlocked/jail broken. I don't
have an
IPhone or any experience of doing this but this is what I've
heard. I
suggest you do a search with google as there are so many pages
about
tethering IPhones and it partly depends on which OS version
you're
running. Perhaps also ask on a list about IPhones for the blind
but I
can't remember the details of that list now.
Catherine
On 8/12/11, Grant Hardy <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi, all,
I have a BrailleNote mPower. I've never been able to use my
iPhone as
a Braille display, nor tether using Bluetooth and my iPhone's
internet
connection. Is it at all possible to do either of these things
on the
mPower?
Now, on a separate note, I currently have the opportunity to
evaluate
and test out a BrailleNote Apex for a few days. While I'm able
to use
the iPhone as a Braille display, I'm not able to tether the
BrailleNote to my iPhone's internet connection. Is this at all
possible?
Grant
___
Replies to this message will go directly to the sender.
If your reply would be useful to the list, please send a
copy to the list as well.
To leave the BrailleNote list, send a blank message to
[email protected]
To view the list archives or change your preferences, visit
http://list.humanware.com/mailman/listinfo/braillenote
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 05:48:22 -0400
From: Alex Hall <[email protected]
Subject: Re: [Braillenote] BrailleNotes and iOS
To: Catherine Turner <[email protected]
Cc: BrailleNote mailing list <[email protected]
Message-ID:
<[email protected]
ail.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
The mPower cannot act as a braille display for iOS, only for
computers
(Mac or, with the right screen reader, PC).
You must have tethering enabled on the iPhone, which is something
you
talk to AT&T or Verizon about. On Verizon at least, you can get
3gb of
data access for $30 per month for use on the iPhone, but you must
pay
extra for the ability to tether (let other devices use your
iPhone as
a wifi hotspot). Once enabled, I think you can put five devices
online
at once through the iPhone by connecting them just like you would
connect them to any other router. Hope this makes sense.
On 8/12/11, Catherine Turner <[email protected]>
wrote:
I think whether or not you can tether your IPhone to other
devices
depends on whether it has been unlocked/jail broken. I don't
have an
IPhone or any experience of doing this but this is what I've
heard. I
suggest you do a search with google as there are so many pages
about
tethering IPhones and it partly depends on which OS version
you're
running. Perhaps also ask on a list about IPhones for the blind
but I
can't remember the details of that list now.
Catherine
On 8/12/11, Grant Hardy <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi, all,
I have a BrailleNote mPower. I've never been able to use my
iPhone as
a Braille display, nor tether using Bluetooth and my iPhone's
internet
connection. Is it at all possible to do either of these things
on the
mPower?
Now, on a separate note, I currently have the opportunity to
evaluate
and test out a BrailleNote Apex for a few days. While I'm able
to use
the iPhone as a Braille display, I'm not able to tether the
BrailleNote to my iPhone's internet connection. Is this at all
possible?
Grant
___
Replies to this message will go directly to the sender.
If your reply would be useful to the list, please send a
copy to the list as well.
To leave the BrailleNote list, send a blank message to
[email protected]
To view the list archives or change your preferences, visit
http://list.humanware.com/mailman/listinfo/braillenote
___
Replies to this message will go directly to the sender.
If your reply would be useful to the list, please send a
copy to the list as well.
To leave the BrailleNote list, send a blank message to
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To view the list archives or change your preferences, visit
http://list.humanware.com/mailman/listinfo/braillenote
--
Have a great day,
Alex (msg sent from GMail website)
[email protected]; http://www.facebook.com/mehgcap
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 03:00:56 -0700
From: Grant Hardy <[email protected]
Subject: Re: [Braillenote] BrailleNotes and iOS
To: Alex Hall <[email protected]
Cc: BrailleNote List <[email protected]
Message-ID: <[email protected]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hi Alex,
Thanks for the reply.
I should have made my message clearer. My iPhone 4 has tethering
all set up and in fact works with other devices. But the
wireless hotspot feature you mentioned uses WPA2, which my mPower
obviously doesn't support. Moreover, the Apex I'm evaluating,
though it should support WPA2 hotspots, won't connect to my
network either.
So the only other option is bluetooth tethering, which works
using a Personal Area Network. In other words, there's no phone
number, username, modem string, etc. to enter as you would with
Bluetooth networking; rather, it's as though you're connecting to
a local area network. Now, I can't get this working on either
unit. Do you have any idea how I would set this up?
Which screen readers can I use the mPower as a Braille display
with over bluetooth?
Cheers,
Grant
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 12, 2011, at 2:48 AM, Alex Hall <[email protected]> wrote:
The mPower cannot act as a braille display for iOS, only for
computers
(Mac or, with the right screen reader, PC).
You must have tethering enabled on the iPhone, which is
something you
talk to AT&T or Verizon about. On Verizon at least, you can get
3gb of
data access for $30 per month for use on the iPhone, but you
must pay
extra for the ability to tether (let other devices use your
iPhone as
a wifi hotspot). Once enabled, I think you can put five devices
online
at once through the iPhone by connecting them just like you
would
connect them to any other router. Hope this makes sense.
On 8/12/11, Catherine Turner
<[email protected]> wrote:
I think whether or not you can tether your IPhone to other
devices
depends on whether it has been unlocked/jail broken. I don't
have an
IPhone or any experience of doing this but this is what I've
heard. I
suggest you do a search with google as there are so many pages
about
tethering IPhones and it partly depends on which OS version
you're
running. Perhaps also ask on a list about IPhones for the blind
but I
can't remember the details of that list now.
Catherine
On 8/12/11, Grant Hardy <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi, all,
I have a BrailleNote mPower. I've never been able to use my
iPhone as
a Braille display, nor tether using Bluetooth and my iPhone's
internet
connection. Is it at all possible to do either of these things
on the
mPower?
Now, on a separate note, I currently have the opportunity to
evaluate
and test out a BrailleNote Apex for a few days. While I'm able
to use
the iPhone as a Braille display, I'm not able to tether the
BrailleNote to my iPhone's internet connection. Is this at all
possible?
Grant
___
Replies to this message will go directly to the sender.
If your reply would be useful to the list, please send a
copy to the list as well.
To leave the BrailleNote list, send a blank message to
[email protected]
To view the list archives or change your preferences, visit
http://list.humanware.com/mailman/listinfo/braillenote
___
Replies to this message will go directly to the sender.
If your reply would be useful to the list, please send a
copy to the list as well.
To leave the BrailleNote list, send a blank message to
[email protected]
To view the list archives or change your preferences, visit
http://list.humanware.com/mailman/listinfo/braillenote
--
Have a great day,
Alex (msg sent from GMail website)
[email protected]; http://www.facebook.com/mehgcap
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 06:42:42 -0700
From: "Rick Lewis" <[email protected]
Subject: Re: [Braillenote] Apex QT with IOS Devices
To: <[email protected]
Message-ID: <067DAE923ED344808003E0582D6885E4@owner3c561f4dc
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I tried posting these comments from my wife Deb yesterday, but
never saw
them on the list, so I'm reposting them. She is not on this
list.
She says:
According to various conversations I had with Humanware, HW
upgraded their
OS and changed how the QT handles TTY which broke the interface
to iOS.
According to HW, it's now up to Apple whether they will or will
not support
HW's change. The difficulty is that apple has never claimed to
support the
QT, only the BT. So there is no indication that Apple will
conform to HW's
change in protocol. So yes, at this stage it's up to Apple and
probably not
likely. I do recommend that people write to apple asking that
they support
the QT. But remember that they never did officially support it.
Where HW failed miserably is that they failed to inform us that
the upgrade
would break the Apple interface and was irreversible. I would
never have
upgraded had I known this since I have found the upgrade to be
worthless
overall.
I believe that HW should provide a way for us to reverse the
upgrade if
Apple does not support the QT in iOS 5.
Hoping this reduces the confusion
My comment:
Whether something is officially supported or not, if you've been
using a
Braille device in a way that enhances, even revolutionizes, your
access, and
its sister device the BT has that functionality, and an upgrade
takes that
away, none of the technicalities matter; you feel disenfranchised
and burned
by the company whose work has taken away that access, even if
unintentionally.
And that overshadows any positive aspects of the Keysoft upgrade.
Customers who have experienced this can't be blamed for their
less than
positive feelings about Humanware at this point.
Whether IOS devicies officially supported the QT or not, KeySoft
9.1 was a
downgrade for those customers because it took away major
functionality they
were using in their daily lives.
Humanware has never publicly acknowledged this, or provided a
means to
reverse the upgrade.
They should do both.
--
Rick Lewis
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 07:00:13 -0700
From: "Rick Lewis" <[email protected]
Subject: Re: [Braillenote] Apex QT with IOS Devices
To: <[email protected]
Message-ID: <093E92D799D74B79B6DEF66BBE9AC67F@owner3c561f4dc
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
My prior post was made before seeing Alex Bec's email.
Alex, this is the kind of response I was hoping to read and that
I
appreciate.
I doubt that anyone thinks Humanware had bad intent, but the
consequences
were devastating for some users.
Unfortunately, until now, Humanware has been silent about this,
and silence
can appear to be apathy.
A little communication can go a long way, and I thank you for
yours.
--
Rick Lewis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alex Bec" <[email protected]
To: <[email protected]
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2011 4:55 PM
Subject: [Braillenote] Apex QT with IOS Devices
Hi,
I'll give a few insights into the context of this Apex QT vs
Braille
Terminal issue to complete Joseph's comprehensive summary.
Up until 9.1, in the Braille Terminal, the QT models were forced
to
operate as Perkins keyboards using the home row, so both models
were
essentially behaving in a similar way. With 9.1 the QT was
allowed to
operate as a QT so as to improve the user experience with the
recent
versions of JAWS that support this. Unfortunately, this had the
unintended consequences that you didn't fail to notice and that
we
somehow failed to foresee at that time.
So as far as Apple is concerned, yes, if they could extend their
driver
to support the enhanced Braille terminal protocol with pass
through of
QT commands, then that would work "as well" as on JAWS. I
believe the
specs of the protocol have been exchanged and/or are quite open
standards, so it's a matter of time for this to happen. But it's
indeed
up to Apple to do this part, as pointed by Dominic, and this
applies to
GW Micro and others. As for brltty and brlAPI, I suspect these
are open
projects that could get updated too with a bit of work.
In the meantime, on our side, we've restored a way to get the QT
to
operate in Perkins mode in the Braille Terminal so that it should
behave
the way it was pre-9.1. It is in the pipe, and here again, just
a matter
of patience before it is available to you, and eventually, you'll
be
able to select whichever mode works best with your (changing)
environment, and get the most of it.
Cheers,
Alex
________________________________
Alex BEC
Software Design Engineer
HumanWare
Christchurch, New Zealand
S: alexandrebec
IP phone: 344
www.humanware.com <http://www.humanware.com/
................................................................
.......
................................................................
.......
.........................
The power is in your hands
___
Replies to this message will go directly to the sender.
If your reply would be useful to the list, please send a
copy to the list as well.
To leave the BrailleNote list, send a blank message to
[email protected]
To view the list archives or change your preferences, visit
http://list.humanware.com/mailman/listinfo/braillenote
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 07:07:12 -0700
From: Joseph Lee <[email protected]
Subject: Re: [Braillenote] Apex QT with IOS Devices
To: "Rick Lewis" <[email protected]>,
[email protected]
Message-ID: <[email protected]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Hi,
Reversal of an upgrade requires 9.0 license key - which is not
possible to obtain. However, at least an engineer stated that a
fix has been implemented for a future patch version.
How about this: Since QT support also includes QWERTY models of
other devices, then it'll be better for QWERTY model users to
write "to Apple for inclusion of QWERTY commands for models with
this keyboard module. In addition, those who are Apple user
and/or interested parties could write to Apple stating the need
for QT support to allow the keyboard to act as a Bluetooth
keyboard when using it with a braille display. Same could be
done for GW Micro users (since we have a number of WE users here,
I think we could write to GW Micro stating HW's position).
Cheers,
Joseph P.S. I'll ask this question on the aiPhone list.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Lewis" <[email protected]
To: <[email protected]
Date sent: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 06:42:42 -0700
Subject: Re: [Braillenote] Apex QT with IOS Devices
I tried posting these comments from my wife Deb yesterday, but
never saw
them on the list, so I'm reposting them. She is not on this
list.
She says:
According to various conversations I had with Humanware, HW
upgraded their
OS and changed how the QT handles TTY which broke the interface
to iOS.
According to HW, it's now up to Apple whether they will or will
not support
HW's change. The difficulty is that apple has never claimed to
support the
QT, only the BT. So there is no indication that Apple will
conform to HW's
change in protocol. So yes, at this stage it's up to Apple and
probably not
likely. I do recommend that people write to apple asking that
they support
the QT. But remember that they never did officially support it.
Where HW failed miserably is that they failed to inform us that
the upgrade
would break the Apple interface and was irreversible. I would
never have
upgraded had I known this since I have found the upgrade to be
worthless
overall.
I believe that HW should provide a way for us to reverse the
upgrade if
Apple does not support the QT in iOS 5.
Hoping this reduces the confusion
My comment:
Whether something is officially supported or not, if you've been
using a
Braille device in a way that enhances, even revolutionizes, your
access, and
its sister device the BT has that functionality, and an upgrade
takes that
away, none of the technicalities matter; you feel disenfranchised
and burned
by the company whose work has taken away that access, even if
unintentionally.
And that overshadows any positive aspects of the Keysoft upgrade.
Customers who have experienced this can't be blamed for their
less than
positive feelings about Humanware at this point.
Whether IOS devicies officially supported the QT or not, KeySoft
9.1 was a
downgrade for those customers because it took away major
functionality they
were using in their daily lives.
Humanware has never publicly acknowledged this, or provided a
means to
reverse the upgrade.
They should do both.
--
Rick Lewis
___
Replies to this message will go directly to the sender.
If your reply would be useful to the list, please send a
copy to the list as well.
To leave the BrailleNote list, send a blank message to
[email protected]
To view the list archives or change your preferences, visit
http://list.humanware.com/mailman/listinfo/braillenote
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 10:23:58 -0400
From: Alex Hall <[email protected]
Subject: Re: [Braillenote] BrailleNotes and iOS
To: Grant Hardy <[email protected]
Cc: BrailleNote List <[email protected]
Message-ID:
<[email protected]
ail.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
That is strange. I have a Myfi router from Verizon which also
uses
wpa2. I can connect to it, but am often kicked off and then let
back
on, with no warning. Did you upgrade to 9.1 on the apex and
bring over
all your connection configurations? If so, one hw rep recommended
(when I was having connection problems) that I erase the database
for
connection configurations on the apex and start over, as there
may
have been problems translating ks9.0x configurations to 9.1+.
Failing
that, at least erase the configuration for the iPhone in the
apex,
reset, and try connecting again.
To my knowledge, Jaws, Window Eyes, and possibly NVDA (through
brltty)
will work for both the mPower and the Apex. On a Mac, VO
supports
mPower and Apex as well, though iOS only supports Apex due to its
upgrade to Windows CE.
On 8/12/11, Grant Hardy <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Alex,
Thanks for the reply.
I should have made my message clearer. My iPhone 4 has
tethering all set up
and in fact works with other devices. But the wireless hotspot
feature you
mentioned uses WPA2, which my mPower obviously doesn't support.
Moreover,
the Apex I'm evaluating, though it should support WPA2 hotspots,
won't
connect to my network either.
So the only other option is bluetooth tethering, which works
using a
Personal Area Network. In other words, there's no phone number,
username,
modem string, etc. to enter as you would with Bluetooth
networking; rather,
it's as though you're connecting to a local area network. Now,
I can't get
this working on either unit. Do you have any idea how I would
set this up?
Which screen readers can I use the mPower as a Braille display
with over
bluetooth?
Cheers,
Grant
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 12, 2011, at 2:48 AM, Alex Hall <[email protected]>
wrote:
The mPower cannot act as a braille display for iOS, only for
computers
(Mac or, with the right screen reader, PC).
You must have tethering enabled on the iPhone, which is
something you
talk to AT&T or Verizon about. On Verizon at least, you can get
3gb of
data access for $30 per month for use on the iPhone, but you
must pay
extra for the ability to tether (let other devices use your
iPhone as
a wifi hotspot). Once enabled, I think you can put five devices
online
at once through the iPhone by connecting them just like you
would
connect them to any other router. Hope this makes sense.
On 8/12/11, Catherine Turner
<[email protected]> wrote:
I think whether or not you can tether your IPhone to other
devices
depends on whether it has been unlocked/jail broken. I don't
have an
IPhone or any experience of doing this but this is what I've
heard. I
suggest you do a search with google as there are so many pages
about
tethering IPhones and it partly depends on which OS version
you're
running. Perhaps also ask on a list about IPhones for the blind
but I
can't remember the details of that list now.
Catherine
On 8/12/11, Grant Hardy <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi, all,
I have a BrailleNote mPower. I've never been able to use my
iPhone as
a Braille display, nor tether using Bluetooth and my iPhone's
internet
connection. Is it at all possible to do either of these things
on the
mPower?
Now, on a separate note, I currently have the opportunity to
evaluate
and test out a BrailleNote Apex for a few days. While I'm able
to use
the iPhone as a Braille display, I'm not able to tether the
BrailleNote to my iPhone's internet connection. Is this at all
possible?
Grant
___
Replies to this message will go directly to the sender.
If your reply would be useful to the list, please send a
copy to the list as well.
To leave the BrailleNote list, send a blank message to
[email protected]
To view the list archives or change your preferences, visit
http://list.humanware.com/mailman/listinfo/braillenote
___
Replies to this message will go directly to the sender.
If your reply would be useful to the list, please send a
copy to the list as well.
To leave the BrailleNote list, send a blank message to
[email protected]
To view the list archives or change your preferences, visit
http://list.humanware.com/mailman/listinfo/braillenote
--
Have a great day,
Alex (msg sent from GMail website)
[email protected]; http://www.facebook.com/mehgcap
--
Have a great day,
Alex (msg sent from GMail website)
[email protected]; http://www.facebook.com/mehgcap
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 11:35:50 -0400
From: Timothy Clark <[email protected]
Subject: Re: [Braillenote] BrailleNotes and iOS
To: Grant Hardy <[email protected]
Cc: BrailleNote mailing list <[email protected]
Message-ID: <[email protected]
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it should be. are you using any other apple product apart from
the i-phone?
Timothy Clark
[email protected]
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End of Braillenote Digest, Vol 2776, Issue 1
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