--- "J. van Baardwijk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> At 14:25 4-2-2003 -0600, Marvin Long wrote:
> 
> > > I think it is about time that people like you
> and Gautam make up their
> > > minds about this. On one hand they complain
> about the military of other
> > > (especially European) countries lacking the
> training and equipment to play
> > > a role of any importance in international
> conflicts, on the other hand 
> > they
> > > complain that those countries let the US do all
> the hard work.
> >
> >I don't understand why these would be thought
> contradictory....  They seem
> >more complementary to me.
> 
> They are not complementary, they are contradictory.
> Gautam et al. are 
> saying that other countries lack the training and
> equipment to play an 
> important role in international conflicts -- IOW,
> they are not capable of 
> doing any "heavy lifting" and must therefore leave
> the "heavy lifting" to 
> the US. Yet at the same time Gautam et al.
> *complain* that those countries 
> don't do the "heavy lifting".
> 
> In other words: first they say "other countries are
> not capable of doing 
> X", and then they *complain* that those other
> countries don't do X.
> 
> 
> Jeroen "Can't have it both ways" van Baardwijk

Marvin is exactly right.  Those other countries
_choose_ not to be capable of fulfilling their global
responsibilities.  All they have to do is reform their
defense establishments for power projection and
increase their defense spending.  If they did those
things, they could play a larger part on the world
stage, and the US wouldn't have to go in and clean up
what they can't do - over, and over, and over again. 
Those countries are not capable of helping out by
choice.  Having made that choice, they should stop
complaining about those who have made a different
choice solve the problems they are unwilling and
unable to help with - and they should, in particular,
stop interfering and making it harder.  They are
clearly not contradictory positions.

Gautam

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