> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Robert Seeberger

...

> > Isn't going to war such an sigificant action that it deserves
> criticism as
> > much as any other?
>
> I don't think criticism is correct exactly. I would think critical
> discussion is more appropriate.

Yes, that's better.

> I support what you are promoting, but I think the current
> situation is a bit
> different than you describe. People making sound logical arguments or even
> making sensible emotional appeals seem to be in short supply for the
> anti-war camp, or at least they lack visibility.

I suspect it's a bit of both.  I wrote about the media in my reply to
Erik... but where do people learn critical discussion these days?  I fear
that many people simply don't; their only example of how to deal with
disagreement is the way it is portrayed in the mass media.  So they don't
even know there is a choice (I don't know who discovered water, but it
wasn't a fish, as Marshall McLuhan or John Culkin said).

> I think a lot of the problem lies with those peaceniks who are
> not prepared
> to *ever* lose an anti-war battle/debate.

There's a lot of that on both (all?) sides.  But I absolutely agree -- for
so many, it's not about making the best decision as a nation, it's become
about who wins and loses.

> Much of the discussion on that
> side has devolved to extreme anti-American/anti-Bush commentary
> and not much
> discussion of the actual issues (at least as far as visible
> proponents go).

The real issues that underlie a lot of anti-right sentiment are hard to
explain in ways that the media will bite.  Passionate oversimplifications,
presented as power struggles, win every time.

> [Cue :CSN&Y Ohio]

Four dead in Ohio...

> Agreed Doc! But we must recognise that this divide has existed
> since the 60s
> and while not always apparent, has been with us most of our
> lives. I dislike
> the the angry tone on both sides of the debate, but it has very
> little to do
> with average folks like us. Its folks like us who determine what the world
> *is*.

I think we've lived in an unusual time, historically speaking.  I hope that
our descendants look back and think, man, that must have been weird, to live
in a world that was so polarized all the time.  Through the ages, that's
hardly ever happened.

Nick

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