----- Original Message ----- From: "Julia Thompson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 10:13 PM Subject: Re: Winning the War on Terror
> Dan Minette wrote: > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Andrew Paul" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 11:25 AM > > Subject: RE: Winning the War on Terror > > > > > From: Dan Minette [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > snip > > > > > > >What mild questioning? Your arguement that its hard to tell whether the > > > >people in Iraq are better off than under Hussein indicates that either > > > >Hussein wasn't such a bad fellow after all or the US is engaged in > > torture, > > > >wholesale murder, institutionalized rape, etc., or that these things are > > > >not primary criteria. Since Gautam has shown that, materially, most > > folks > > > >are better off, what remains to decide on? > > > > > > Firstly, I just cant subscribe to the view that I have to give wholesale > > support > > > to the US actions or wear a "I Love Saddam" badge. Cant I be upset why > > whats happening > > > in Iraq? Cant I ask questions without bing a traitor? > > > > But, that's not what either Gautam or I have been saying. If you can quote > > where I have said that, then I will apologize, because that would have been > > unreasonable of me. > > > > > I thought that was waht democracy was about. > > > Secondly, please remind me in which post Gautum "has shown" that people > > are better off > > > in Iraq. Look, I dont deny that they may well be so. There is enough > > nasty shit on my TV each night > > > that I feel justified in asking the question. How do we show that they > > are "better off"? > > > > I think that illustrates the real point. If 50,000,000 people are killed > > by the government off camera, then its a meaningless statistic. If one is > > rolled over by a tank on CNN, its a tragedy that shows the moral depravity > > of the government. > > > > These two examples, BTW, have nothing directly to do with Iraq. It has to > > do with the world response to the actions of the Chinese government. > > Roughly 50 million people died in the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural > > Revolution. Few died at Tienemin Square (sp). Yet, the latter > > reverbarates in world consciousness, and the former is pretty well > > forgotten. Thus, whether one sees bad things on TV is not a good means of > > judging the actions of various governments. > > > > My arguement is that there is tremendous evidence for Hussein's actions > > being horrendous; not just bad horrendous. Do you differ? > > > > That is a key point for me that you don't answer. You are free to answer > > or not. But, if there is dialog, then it is worthwhile for each of us to > > lay out our assumptions so we can see where we agree and disagree. My > > assumption is not that you are favoring slaughter, but that you don't want > > to deal with the > > > > The what? Could you complete the thought? Thanks. > Sure, sorry for the incomplete thought. that you don't want to deal with the responsibility for deaths of innocents one way or another. But, I don't think we have that choice. We are responsible for what we could have prevented as well as for what we did. The whole world bears some responsibility for Rwanda's genocide, because it could have been prevented. In some cases, like Tibet we stood by for the right reasons, the cost in human lives for intervention would have been far heavier than that for standing by. Our hands were fairly well tied in Korea, because a war there would kill over 100,000 within a few days. But, we also bear responsibility for not acting. I say that, even though I am not advocating an invasion of North Korea. I'm merely advocating taking the responsibility for the consequences of one's decisions. Now, we can differ on the consequences; that's fine. We can put forth facts and analysis to support our differing opinions. But, it would take quite a bit for me to accept that there are no negative consequences involved with not acting. Dan M. _______________________________________________ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
