----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew Paul" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 12:39 AM Subject: RE: The Prospect on the Future of the Democrats
> From: Dan Minette [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > I don't think that it is accurate to describe Bill Clinton as an > > "evangelical." > > > He's a Baptist. He fits within a broad category of "born again > Christians" > who know that they are already saved, so their actions cannot condemn > them. >This is where I get all wierded out about religion. He is already saved, >so his actions can't condemn him? So, what did he do to earn this >apparent inability to commit any more sins?. Or am I reading this wrong? You are reading it wrong. No Christians think that we earn salvation...it is a gift of God that merely has to accept. There is significant differences of opinion on what constitutes acceptance....but that's not the point. >It's like the Mafia bosses who raped, murdered, prostituted etc etc for >60 years and then, on their death bed confess, admit they have sinned >and apparently get the express bus to heaven. It just seems way too >easy, and thus shallow and meaningless, and of no benefit to ensuring a >better world. I think that you miss the Christian perspective here: it is impossible to game the system, dealing with someone who knows you better than you do: God. It has to be more than an admission of sin, it has to be an honest repentance. Being sorry you did wrong because you might go to hell for it doesn't cut it. One must honestly repent. The prodigal son story is one of the best explainations of the Christian concept of forgiveness. However, lets assume that the system can be gamed...just for the purpose of arguementation. Then, Christians should expect to have the same results after they die, whether their actions are all good or all evil. This is, essentially, the perception of an athiest, right? For an athiest, after death, there is nothing, no matter how one behaves. So, if there is heaven, instead, no matter what one does, what's the difference as far as influencing behavior? >Indeed, I am reminded of Groucho Marx's comments. Any religion that would make >it that easy to be saved, I wouldn't want to be part of. Of course, I am >probably missing something. Heaven, almost certainly, as I don't think a >two minute confession or a 2 hour born-again experience is sufficient to >wipe away a life of sin. For a Christian, nothing we can do is good enough to earn heaven. We only can get it because of a gift from God; all we have to do is accept it. Indeed, most of the mature Christians I know do not operate on the delayed gratification view of morality...I'll do the right thing now because I will get lots later. Rather its acting out of love of and faith in God, and love of neighbor. It's also worth understanding the Christian's understanding of God if one wishes to understand this viewpoint. Picturing God as a powerful alien does not help in understanding a Christian's faith in God, because that's not how a Christian views God. The Christian hymn which proclaims "God is Love, and he who abides in love, abides in Him" and the proclamation of Jesus that "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Light" gives a flavor of the Christian understanding. So, love of God reflects of love of truth, love itself, right action, etc. incarnate. Love of neighbor is love of all. There is no doubt that Christians fall short of this ideal. Probably every Christian has been guilty, at one time or another, of trying to negotiate with God or gaming the system. But mature Christians understand that these attempts reflect our own failings. Dan M. _______________________________________________ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
