On Jun 17, 2005, at 2:43 AM, William T Goodall wrote:

On 17 Jun 2005, at 4:36 am, Warren Ockrassa wrote:

On Jun 16, 2005, at 3:25 PM, Russell Chapman wrote:

Or, just maybe, these people are beating up these kids coz they're psycopaths who enjoy it (or derive some missing feeling or power or whatever), and then suddenly start talking religion and devils when they get caught ? Call me cynical...

It might be the other way around. Sadistic people with delusions of inadequacy might be using religion as an excuse for torture.

A simpler explanation is that religion is evil.

Not inclined to agree there; that's actually more of a one-dimensional point of view -- simplistic rather than simple, or perhaps oversimplified.

China has been abusing Tibet now for half a century; yet it's China that is purportedly the atheist nation, not Tibet. If religion were the evil force, one would expect China to convert to some flavor of it and use that to justify their power-grabs. (One could say, "At least they're being honest about it and not hiding behind the skirts of a priest" -- I'd probably have to agree with the intent there, if not the conclusion. Say what one will about the methods -- at least China's honesty is refreshing. They just flat want power, and aren't using any Holy Writ to justify their reasons. ;)

But there are examples of religious institutions attempting good as well. In the 1960s Vietnamese Buddhists weren't just setting themselves on fire; they were engaging in relief efforts for the laity. Actually IIRC the war there *forced* them into action -- they realized that simply sitting and meditating and burning incense was not going to be sufficient to address the suffering around them, and so *changed their religious policy* from one of non-involvement to something now called (by Thich Nhat Hanh) "engaged Buddhism".

And what of organizations such as the Salvation Army? They make positive differences in the lives of the indigent, homeless or substantially financially disadvantaged -- as do, believe it or not, the Hare Krishnas.

There's no argument that some of the policies adopted by some religions can be evil, and there's no argument that some people involved in religion are themselves classifiable as "evil" (though the definition of the word evil is highly plastic and the subject of another discussion entirely!). But you can find that sort of "evil" prevalent in much ore earthly organizations, such as Enron, Halliburton or the currently constituted US federal government.

It might be more practical to assert that groupthink is what can lead to evil. That is, falling into the view that one's in-group (whatever it might be) is THE right one, that everyone else is deluded or subhuman or lacking a soul or grist for one's financial mills or what have you. Get a large enough cadre of like-minded folks and you've got something that can feel a lot like a cult. (Ever see footage of Wal-Mart management conferences? They look like a combination of a political rally and a major church revival. VERY spooky.)

Whatever language is used to justify the groupthink -- or its actions -- is completely irrelevant. It can be called jihad, crusade, free enterprise or manifest destiny; the results are often the same and, I think, they come from the same intellectual place within the players.

Religion's an easy target because it is so prevalent, but I think the evil lies not in our cults, but in ourselves.


--
Warren Ockrassa, Publisher/Editor, nightwares Books
http://books.nightwares.com/
Current work in progress "The Seven-Year Mirror"
http://www.nightwares.com/books/ockrassa/Flat_Out.pdf

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