At 07:56 AM Monday 7/25/2005, PAT MATHEWS wrote:
From: Doug Pensinger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
I think whoever (Robert Chassell?) said that they thought maybe people
_need_ religion hit the nail on the head. When gods and religion were
invented, people needed a way to explain that which there was no possible
way for them to understand. While we know much more about the universe
around us now, there is still so much unexplained that just thinking
about it can be frightening.
They also needed guidance on how to behave and think. They needed a reason
to sacrifice their short-term good for the long-term survival of the
group. Custom and taboo used to be the answer.
I don't agree with those that think that religion is evil, I can
understand why people need it and on balance I think that it has played a
positive role in our civilization. I think that one of the things that
it probably did was allow intellectualism to compete with physical
prowess in terms of societal control. This may seem contradictory in
light of present day religion â especially fundamentalism â that
seems to rely on archaic ideas and superior intelligence without
substantiation, but I think itâs possible to look upon religion as a
precursor to science!
Agreed, and also, see above.
It seems reasonable to conjecture that the shamans, the priests, the
medicine men were probably the first doctors, the first astronomers, the
first botanists and biologists the first that made it their lifeâs work
to explain the world around them.
Not just reasonable to conjecture: 99% certain.
Or as I often mentioned in class when we were talking about the ancient
origins of astronomy, someone figured out how the positions and motions of
the heavenly bodies could be used as a calendar which could tell them when
things like planting and harvest season should be vital knowledge in an
agrarian society and probably not long after that realized that watching
the Sun, Moon, and stars was a heckuva lot easier than digging and planting
and harvesting, but that cushy position would only last as long as that
knowledge was available to only a select few, so much of the arcana of
astrology and such accreted in order to make it look like what they were
doing was something only a select few could do and so allowed those select
few to keep their cushy jobs rather than having to actually work for a
living. (Of course, today's astronomers teach at universities rather than
actually working for a living . . . :P )
In doing so,
however, they must have found that for every question that they answered
they uncovered two new, baffling questions. Questions they were only
able to explain by inventing deities.
I doubt the professional priesthood invented deities. I think the people
did, telling themselves just-so stories in the night.
I do believe that religion has begun to outlive its usefulness and that
it is time for human civilization to move beyond the idea that there is
some mystical power controlling the universe. As I mentioned before,
established religions have a tendency to cling to anachronisms
(creationism, for instance) that are an impediment to intellectual growth.
I notice what they cling to is archaic *science*. On matters of (to
paraphrase the Pope's mandate) faith and morals, they can be anything from
destructive to the best guidance going.
Depending on one's personal POV and circumstances, sometimes the very same
piece of advice can be "destructive" in one person's POV and "the best
guidance going" for another . . .
We canât solve problems by pretending that
they donât exist or by insisting that the words of an ancient text
overrule our intellect. By the same token, however, we canât just dump
wholesale the institutions that insulate us from our incomprehension.
Exactly. Or that stand between a good many people and their barbarian
tendencies. NYT Online had an article by Chuck Colson, now a prison
reformer; it's very clear that religion has made him a better person.
Stories like this abound and have even, as in the 12-step movement, become
an institution.
Don't make the mistake Sokrates made - when he deconstructed the Athenian
religion (which was overripe for it), he liberated a lot of intellectual
energy. He also cut Kritias and Alkabiades loose from whatever moral
moorings they once had, since they were ready to follow him through the
deconstruction, but not into the higher reaches.
And look what it got him . . .
--Ronn! :)
I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon.
I never dreamed that I would see the last.
--Dr. Jerry Pournelle
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