> Dan Minette wrote: > > Behalf Of Deborah Harrell > > > Dan
<some snippage> > > <grin> And I was refusing to have my pro-choice > stance > > deny _any_ protection to the unborn (teratogens > etc.) > > OK, fine. Then the question on the table should be > who is a protected person being and what is not. As your discussion WRT self-harm (tobacco etc) notes, it depends. We have different levels of protection for different entities; a minor is not legally able to purchase alcohol or tobacco b/c these are potentially very harmful, but an adult ought to be able to choose how s/he pollutes his/her own body. OTOH, since we know that second-hand smoke *is* harmful to children, adults and the unborn, laws limiting exposure are IMO reasonable (while completely banning tobacco or alcohol would be insupportable). My understanding is that you equate a zygote with a person; I do not. The law does not, although some legislation esp WRT teratogens is primarily beneficial to the unborn (as well as the ecosystem in general, of course). > > But we didn't *start* that war - Hussein invaded > > Kuwait. > > I was referring to the earlier bombing of the Iraqi > reactor by Israel, > probably with tacit US support. Without it, Hussein > would have invaded > Kuwait having already had a significant nuclear > arsenal. He was within a > year of getting enough plutonium for his first bomb > when the Israelis bombed > the reactor. Well, maybe he would have used the > bomb against Tehran > earlier, that's always possible...but the point is > that that bombing raid > probably saved a number of lives. Murky ground ethically; if you are *certain* that somebody is preparing to attack people, and you have the means to remove the threat without, say, bombing a hospital, then you are on the lighter side of Grey to pre-emptively strike (as I stated in a post several years ago). In my book, workers in a facility creating WoMD are ligitimate targets rather than innocent civilians. But if your intelligence is questionable - say from a single source of dubious veracity, ie GWII - you are on the darker side of Grey to strike first. > > > ....yet killing an infant is murder, just as > > > killing an adult is, > > > and just as killing an ape isn't. > > > > Nor, under law, is aborting a 15-week fetus. > Nor is aborting a 8.5 month fetus as long as a > hospital and physician can be > found for a go-ahead. My sister said she knows > personally of highly > questionable late term abortions where she's > worked....no indication of life > threatening illness to the mother at all. From what > she told me, before > birth, the only person that matters is the > mother....the fetus is not human > until born....even thought it would be viable. > > Now, I have a hunch you wouldn't agree with that. I do not support late-term abortions unless the mother's life is in danger, or a terminal birth defect like anencephaly is detected. > You said no hospital would do that. But, the fact > that my sister worked at > a hospital that did does seem to contradict that. No, I did not say that; I said that I did not know any OBs who would equate abortion with euthanasia of drug-addicted babies (or AIDS babies, either). > > > No, I'm judging that 5 million deaths is worse > that 500. > > > > ? Sorry, missing that? Please clarify. > > If a women died trying to abort in a back alley, > that is certainly a human > death. But, from the right-to-life movement's > perspective, 500 deaths of > women attempting abortion must be weighted against > the deaths of millions of > people when women can easily find abortions. An 8-week fetus does not have the same status as a born human; OTOH millions of children die yearly from malnutrition, various diseases, poor sanitation, neglect and abuse. My crack about alligators and swamps was meant to reflect the fact that the entire milieu (sp?) needs to be changed: the culture(s), poverty, disease, education, attitudes etc. Just this morning a client asked me for help with cantering her horse, but what she *needs* is help with communication and control of her horse, as well as control over her own body (balance, breathing etc); only when the latter are corrected will she be able to fearlessly canter her obedient and willing horse. Debbi Off For Dressage With Cezanne Maru :) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l