----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Minettte" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'Killer Bs Discussion'" <brin-l@mccmedia.com> Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 11:55 PM Subject: RE: Barack Obama
>> > >> >> The three closely placed shots to the forehead from about 10 yards >> is >> very suspicious. (This, I've heard is from the coroner report) >> The "official" story that has changed at least 4 times makes it >> even >> more suspicious. > > I googled and quickly found this site: > > http://themiddleground.blogspot.com/2007/07/pat-tillman-death-and-conspiracy > -part.html Geez Dan, that is a godawful site to be citing from. It is quite obviously one of those cherry-picking-partisan websites devoted to putting some opposing spin on an issue. And it blatantly attempts to mislead, frex the conflation of 10 feet with 10 yards. > > If you look later in this analysis, you will see strong criticism of > the > military's handling of the truth afterwards. That appears to be almost universal. I'm sure your googling shows that the same as mine does. >So, it does seem to be a > middle ground analysis. Not on this planet. Those guys are right wingers to the core. Here is a better cite for your argument: http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Pat_Tillman On April 24, 2007 Spc. Bryan O'Neal, the last soldier to see Pat Tillman alive, testified before the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee that he was warned by superiors not to divulge information that a fellow soldier killed Tillman, especially to the Tillman family. Later, Pat Tillman's brother Kevin Tillman, who was also in the convoy travelling behind his brother at the time of the 2004 incident in Afghanistan but did not witness it, testified that the military tried to spin his brother's death to deflect attention from emerging failings in the Afghan war. Later in the hearing Jessica Lynch testified about misinformation and hype relating to the battlefield and how the military lied about her capture and injuries as they had lied about Tillman's death reality, to create a palatable myth for public consumption. She also met with the Tillman family and compared her incident in Iraq to Pat Tillman's in Afghanistan, saying, "Our stories are similar". But i note that this cite also supports what I have said. The "Official" stories have not been truthful and that has increased suspicions. > > >> >> I have not heard the claim that Tillman's death was sanctioned from >> higher-ups. But I do believe that some sort of cover-up is a fact. >> There were too many "official" stories spread over too long a >> period >> to be explained simply by bureaucratic fubars. > > I think there is well established. I think that, initially, there > was > supposition by folks who wanted a hero, and that, once wrong, their > instinct > was to protect their ass. Well, that is pretty much what I see and what I'm saying. But I am going further and saying that the cover-up is *causing* the conspiracy theories. > > >> The whole story very well could be a dead fish of the friendly fire >> species, but it stinks like assassination. > > Why? Which is more realistic, that everyone involved would go along > with > the murder of one of their own, or that real time mistakes caused a > friendly > fire incident. An attempt to create another Jessica Lynch from an > NFL hero > has a lot of verisimilitude. Murder and cover up from his > compatriots in > the Rangers, privates, fellow NCOs up through the highest ranks of > the > military is another thing. I think this point requires some clarification. In this case when one speaks of murder, one has to assume that the speaker could be thinking of any range of events from an accidental homicide to premeditated murder. I'm not particularly attracted to the premeditated murder theories, though I do believe they are basically consistant with the facts of the matter. I do find compelling the idea that the other unit screwed the pooch so completely that Tillman was killed, and further I believe that simply being removed from The Rangers (as members of the other unit were) is an insufficient reaction to the killing of a fellow soldier. (My reading of events leads me to believe that these guys screwed up so fully and completely that they should be held criminally liable.) > > For example, Spc. Bryan O'Neal, who testified in a Congressional > hearing > that > > <quote> > > I wanted right off the bat to let the family know what had happened, > especially Kevin, because I worked with him in a platoon and I knew > that he > and the family all needed to know what had happened," O'Neal > testified. "I > was quite appalled that when I was actually able to speak with > Kevin, I was > ordered not to tell him." I've seen this sourced in several places. > > Asked who gave him the order, O'Neal replied that it came from his > battalion > commander, then-Lt. Col. Jeff Bailey. > > "He basically just said ... 'Do not let Kevin know, that he's > probably in a > bad place knowing his brother's dead,' " O'Neal told House Oversight > and > Government Reform Committee Chairman Henry Waxman. "And he made it > known I > would get in trouble, sir, if I spoke with Kevin on it being > fratricide." > > <end quote> > > must really have been part of a plot to murder Tillman. > > There are other quotes that have him saying that Tillman was the > only boss > who didn't degrade anyone. He was 18 years old...and I really don't > see him > as part of a massive government plot. > >>Questions such as why Tillman's uniform was burned immediately > > Because the friendly fire death of a poster boy for the war was > inconvenient...especially after the wheels started turning. But you do understand how Tillman's anti-Iraq-war stance complicates the matter? When the "poster-boy" takes a decided stance against the war, advises his squadmates to vote against the pro-war party, and is then killed in an event where there are serious doubts as to whether enemies were present at all, when the story of his death is shown to be lies in multiple subsequent versions, well I think investigating the ecosystem of his death is something worth doing. And that would include visiting the various allegations and examining the relevant relationships. I would think that such an investigation would clear the good names of many and implicate a few, and that is worth the effort. > >>and why his >death was withheld for so long need to be answered. > > > Was his death withheld or the cause of death? That should be cause of death. (Boy am I tired today<G>) > > There were a number of people with Tillman at the time. They would > _all_ > have to be either part of a murder, or part of the cover up. This > would > include a number of people who were shot at, and one who was > wounded. The link you quote shows that there was a cover-up ordered. > > IMHO, the Pat Tillman murder conspiracy is like the Bill Clinton > mass > murderer conspiracy theory. Since Bill was found covering things > up, he > must be covering up murder. I find it disconcerning that so many > people of > either party believe the worst of opponents, but are sure that only > lies are > told about their folks. > Well Dan, isn't that pretty much what you are doing? You start with the assumption that people here believe Bush or administration higher ups ordered Tillman's death and argue from there. I have not seen anyone say that specifically. (I don't recall anyone doing so) But the cover-up *is* a conspiracy. Some of it is forced and some volunteered. But that it has taken 3 years to get the facts as we know them out, and that there have been official lies told publicly and subsequently exposed, tells me that an independent investigation is called for and that perhaps the penalties for "ass-covering" should be stiffened. Families who donate their children's lives to the service of their country deserve a much more honest response from their elected and appointed officials. xponent For Those Worthy Of Our Trust Maru rob _______________________________________________ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
