On Jul 23, 2008, at 10:21 AM, Ronn! Blankenship wrote: > At 08:02 AM Wednesday 7/23/2008, Bruce Bostwick wrote: > >> On Jul 23, 2008, at 3:04 AM, Ronn! Blankenship wrote: >> >>> At 10:06 PM Tuesday 7/22/2008, Bruce Bostwick wrote: >>>> On Jul 22, 2008, at 9:29 PM, hkhenson wrote: >>>> >>>>> I am not optimistic that this will be done. If this or some other >>>>> really huge supply of primary energy is not found, we are going to >>>>> be >>>>> in for some nasty times. The other way the energy crisis will be >>>>> solved is for the world population to fall to about a billion. >>>>> >>>>> Keith >>>> >>>> Pretty sure we're headed for a population crash at least that >>>> drastic >>>> regardless. it's obvious to me that the earth cannot support 6-7 >>>> billion sustainably no matter what we do. And there are certain >>>> parts >>>> of the population doing their best to outbreed everyone else just >>>> to >>>> skew future demographics. So it's likely to be a hard crash, and >>>> not >>>> a very well controlled one at that. >>> >>> >>> >>> Showing again that the underlying problem is that people must >>> renounce greed and selfishness and replace them with cooperation and >>> altruism. >>> >>> >>> . . . ronn! :) >> >> It's been tried. Many times. > > > You know what Yoda said. > > > . . . ronn! :) > > "Do . . . or do not. There is no try." > -- Yoda
I have to go with Pat's quote. I personally would absolutely love to live in a world run on cooperation and altruism, and I see those as ideals we're working toward, some people of this species grasp the value of it more than others. But a world run on cooperation and altrusim can't be established by fiat, because it depends on *everyone* (or at least a critical mass of the population) believing in those values and taking ownership of the process of putting them into action, and historically, social movements based on precisely those values have been the ones most vulnerable to being subverted to serve personal greed, and the ones most prone to become oppressive oligarchies and dictatorships. For every Marx, there's a Stalin. (Which was one of the many examples I meant by "it's been tried".) This species is just not ready to be turned loose with only its own individuals' ethical and moral senses as police. And a world built on cooperation and altruism has to be exactly that -- it's not something that can be imposed on people from outside, it's something they have to consciously choose for it to work. Some of us get it. But not enough, not by far, not yet .. "Grotesque oppression isn't okay just because it's been institutionalized." -- Toby Ziegler _______________________________________________ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
