Hi not having a go! Im intersted in the points but i don't have the time or space in my inbox to keep all these email. Would the Ultimate forum be a better place so i can read bits and pieces as and when i can with out loosing track of the points.
Thanks Phil --- "Mitchell, Ben [LBS]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > My feeling is that in Britain we don't know enough > about the practicalities of having observers for us > to rule the idea out completely. This is obviously > because we don't really need them at the moment and > I, like many others it seems, would prefer that we > didn't have them. > > I do feel quite strongly that the presence of > impartial officials takes the responsibility away > from players, thus giving them the right to cheat > whenever they want. If you're competitive enough, > playing a game with no stakes whatsoever can still > involve a certain amount of rule bending or > breaking. Therefore, I don't accept that as the > stakes in Ultimate are increased there is a greater > need for observers. Sunday league football, or > indeed Wednesday night 5-a-side seem to be pretty > low level sporting confrontations (few 'titles' to > be won there) which have no end of cheating and > gamesmanship. I don't think the presence of > officials does anything to reduce that. Furthermore, > I know highly spirited (and very competitive) > Ultimate players that approach other sports very > differently when there is a referee present. I once > had to referee a football match of Ultimate players > - it was ugly! > > However, maybe we should try having observers in > domestic games sometime. We'll learn more about how > it works and for those who have to play those mean > old Americans it could be good preparation. > > One other thing - someone mentioned off-sides. Is it > about time we all tried to be onside for pulls much > more? In particular, those throwing the pulls should > try much harder to be onside. I will if you will! > > Ben > LeedsLeedsLeeds #29 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Justin Parkhurst > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: 16 March 2004 16:23 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [BD] SoG & observers > > While its interesting to note the evolution of the > football Referee, I think > Jon P made a valid point we need to remember when > reading it - in the US, > observers were brought in because cheating started > happening to a greater > extent - not the other way around. The same is seen > here in the football > case. > > > > Ultimate is growing, there is no doubt about that. > What we really need to > ask is, is Ultimate qualitatively different from > other sports in its notion > of Spirit and self-calling, or is it pretty much a > sport like any other - > where, at the highest levels, you need someone to > judge differences of > opinion (John McEnroe may disagree here...)? > Someday money may be at > stake - not just the (limited) fame from being a > championship team - when > winning means a bigger paycheque, can we expect > spirit to prevail? - the > history of Football seems to show it probably wont - > indeed, what has > happened in the US also shows this. As it grows, it > becomes more > competitive, and as that happens, people will be > more and more willing to > break the rules - or at least push them to a more > competitive edge. It's > only natural that when you play in the park you dont > need to worry about > this, but when you drop several thousand pounds to > fly to Hawaii to compete > after training for months, you are going to push the > envelope more - and > thats what is happening. > > > > As an example, can I bring up a past BritDisc > discussion on whether you can > start stalling someone when they have caught the > disc and run out of bounds. > The fact of the matter is, I only know competitive > teams in competitive > environments who do this - this interpretation of > the rule (and no, I'm not > accusing anyone of cheating) would not have happened > if we all still played > for fun in the park Similarly, discussions I've had > about intentionally > stepping into a cutter's way - is it allowed? is it > a pick? a foul? whatever > your interpretation, people are pushing the envelope > with ultimate as it > grows more competitive. In the US people were > starting to cheat > intentionally (I've had tips on how to fast count or > bump the thrower > without getting called on it) - and this was not > because of observers, but > lead to them. > > > > I'd love it if we could all be self-regulating. I'd > love it if we all > played with great spirit (and I value the spirit > awards I've won) but the > question is, will this actually happen if Ultimate > continues to grow? Many > of you reading this will say 'I play Ultimate > because I love it and one > aspect of that is loving the lack of referee' > > That is a great feeling, but the sad fact is, that > is not why everyone plays > Ultimate - they play because its a great sport - > like football, basketball, > tennis, and every other great sport which relies on > referees. > > > > The only alternative I can see to an eventual > phasing in observers is a more > clear and powerful institutional regulatory force in > place - that is to say, > if someone cheats, you can make complaints to a body > with the power to ban > them from matches. Writing observers out of the > rulebook does not address > the problem of people starting to push the rules > and, yes, break them > intentionally. Otherwise, what recourse do we have > but to take our disc and > go home? > > > > -Justin P > > > > __________________________________________________ > BritDisc mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://pootle.near.me.uk/mailman/listinfo/britdisc > Staying informed - http://www.ukultimate.com/informed.asp ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html __________________________________________________ BritDisc mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://pootle.near.me.uk/mailman/listinfo/britdisc Staying informed - http://www.ukultimate.com/informed.asp
