Hi all, I just subscribed to bridisc this morning so I could vent my frustration with this particular topic.
I've been playing ultimate for over 11 years now. I've played all around the world, from the lowest divisions to the highest. I've organised numerous student, state and national tournaments in Australia. * Given the advance knowledge of what the weather was going to be like, the lack of pitch water was an absolute disgrace - I can't remember ever seeing a tournament like it. It was at best, incompetence, at worst, it was wilful neglect. I hear that the going pay day for running a tournament these days is around £5000. Really, how hard is it to get someone to get water to fields? Give £200 to a poor uni student and make his year. Buy discs for a student team, get your mate from down the road to help you out... Whatever - be creative. Just get the basics done and people like me won't say a word. Seriously, it's not that hard. Lachie (the angry Australian from Fire, who's not always angry) * No, I never made money out of these tournaments. All money made was pumped back into the student club development of the sport. That's predominantly the way things are done in Australia. I have no real major problem with people making money, as long as they provide adequate facilities. That said, I'd much prefer to fund student / club ultimate than pad someone's bank account. On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 11:36 AM, Rob McGowan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Well put Anja. > > n.b. I wasnt in Mansfield so this is not directed at the TD, nor at the > 'water' situation, though I use it as an example as it seems topical. > > The question of provided facilities, services and amenities often comes up > in the frisbee community. It seems to me that there has been too little > pressure applied to the UKUA/TD's to provide consistency in the level of > service provided. Anja outlines the minimum requirements below, and I couldnt > agree more. > > I am happy for the TD to make a significant profit if they provide a great > service. Looking at the entry to the last tour, the TD will have taken in > over £10k in entry fees, which is presumably similar to the other 2 tours so > far this season. Even if we assume 75% of this is taken up by costs (a > significant over estimate I would guess) then the TD is still looking at 2.5k > profit. I'm not using this figure to criticise, I think it is great. > Hopefully it will encourage others to bid and provide ever improving service. > > Also, I'm not suggesting any of the 'tournament services' Anja outlines are > easy nor that they are easy to provide in a consistent manner. However they > are critical to the success of a tournament and to the safety of the players > attending. I dont think responses (again not directed at this TD nor this > tournament, more at the general response that is often directed back at > people who criticise tournaments) such as "my team worked really hard to > provide XYZ but i'm sorry if you didnt get it" are really valid. We all pay a > standard fee and are all entitled to expect consistent service. If providing > water to all pitches means you or someone on your team have to miss a match > then that is the price you pay for making the money you do for running the > tournament - seems like a great deal to me given the figures above. > > I think an agreement to provide a consistent level of basic services should > be a pre-requisite for submitting a bid for a tournament. Remember that when > we pay for our entry we are paying for a service over and above what we pay > each year for UKUA membership, if you dont feel like you get your moneys > worth then make it known. > > > > ________________________________ > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of alena Papayanis > Sent: Tue 13/05/2008 11:45 > > > To: [email protected]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [BD] Pitch Water at Mansfield > > > > > See comments from Anja below! > > > Hi there, > > > > As a TD there are a few KEY things you are responsible for: > > great PITCHES, and a SCHEDULE (personally I think targeted 2 weeks before a > tourney minimum) > HEALTH AND SAFETY (St Johns Ambulances around, mobiles, etc) > WATER > FOOD > TIMELY > COMMUNICATION (directions and details, TD mobile and email all on UKUA > events site, postings to BD... A website, scores to follow up) > TRAVEL DIRECTIONS/OPTIONS/PARKING > > > It > isn't acceptable to tell people to get their own water. Feedback about > this isn't a personal critique, it's a critique of service provided so > that it can be improved and addressed in the future. Teams pay fees, > TD's put in bids, and a service is there to be provided. Any TD should > WANT feedback from their customers, communicate reasoning or apology, > and should act on that feedback if they run another tournament. I've > run a fair number of tournaments over the last 18 years so I know the > amount of work it is. If you bid, you do it because you want to provide > a great service to an incredible ultimate community, to grow and > improve the sport we all love, and you might make some money too > (personally I think budgets should be published for all tournaments > that the UKUA sanctions since players have no choice but to enter if > they want a TOUR title). > > > > So: feedback assumes the TD has pride in service: aspiring to provide > the best tournament possible, and improving the offer year on year. > > > > My feedback: > > Mansfield ran on time, Hannah had detailed info on the UKUA site early > on, including a host of hotels and camping, pitches were pretty good > with some hard bits, she got back to my emails quickly, things ran on > time, train service from Mansfield to London two years running is > non-existent, we had no water all weekend. I went most games second > half without. Ok, water service was poor. Hannah and group: take note > and fix it next time - it was unacceptable. Thanks for all the other > hard work. > > > > Schedule came late... We definitely can improve this. Felix knows we > need to address it, he is great about communicating along the way and > getting feedback, and we in women's are experimenting with structure so > it takes longer. The whole ultimate community needs to help by > registering asap and not bailing last minute. > > > > Things we should AIM to build towards: > > improved score reporting online during and after events. > getting people to watch finals > Ideally > we set a yearly structure where everyone knows when tour 0,1,2,3, Nats > is - same old weekend every year - and this will make organizing and > planning to attend them so much easier. It will also allow Europe to > set a tournament structure that works with TOUR. Ideally our > competitive women's teams can play 3 TOUR tournies, one nationals, 2 > European elite series and EUCF. If we knew that was our year every year > it would make life so much better, and we would be competitive in > schedule with our North American and Japanese counterparts. > > Anja > > Mail to anjahaman at btinternet com > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 22:25:36 +0100 > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [BD] Pitch Water at Mansfield > > > > Sticking up for the organisers slightly here..... > > > > We were playing on pitches 17/18 on the Saturday (about as far away as you > > could get) and had no problem with the water supply. We also had > > consecutive games. The two guys in the van did very well topping up the > > water, and we were never short. They even gave me a lift back to the > > pavillion when my knee had given up. Certainly no complaints on the amount > > of times they came around with water containers full. > > > > Sunday we were a little shorter on water, but never to the point of running > > out. > > > > Organising can be a thankless task at times and I did not have any > > complaints about the provision of water. > > > > Mike > > Lemmings > > > > On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 9:39 PM, Daniel Richards < > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > Hi Paul, > > > > > > We did fill up water before our games, but there's only so much water you > > > can carry when you're carrying a bunch of other gear too. On the Saturday > > > our four games consisted of two sets of back-to-back games, and it really > > > is > > > very difficult to carry enough water to last around three hours. > > > > > > We were also on the far-side pitches, so walking back and forth, > including > > > the time taken filling up bottles adds up to maybe 15-20 minutes, > possibly > > > longer. Several of us ended up missing parts of our games to fill up > water > > > and this wasn't ideal, given our small squad and injuries. > > > > > > On Sunday we also played a consecutive games, and there was also no > > > replacement of water during the second game. > > > > > > I can totally understand that the heat was exceptional, and therefore the > > > desire for water was larger, and difficult to manage, I'm also perfectly > > > happy to play consecutive matches, I think they're nessecary if we're to > > > continue to have such fantastic large tournaments. When there are > > > consecutive matches I think it's really important to get the water out to > > > those teams involved. > > > > > > Dan > > > > > > On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 8:25 PM, Paul Holden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > The 'you' in the following email is not directed at Dan in particular, > I > > > > tried using 'one' but it just sounds stupid... > > > > > > > > I understand people's frustration on this topic but I do wonder how > hard > > > > it is to: > > > > > > > > 1. Work out how much water you needs per game. > > > > 2. Look at the schedule and check when your games are. > > > > 3. Carry suffcient water to the pitch so that you personally do not run > > > > out. > > > > 4. Not leave half empty bottles of drink behind you at the end of each > > > > game.* > > > > > > > > *I had to clear up the rubbish left by the previous teams before each > of > > > > our games at the weekend. This generally included several half full > > > > bottles of water. > > > > > > > > Personally I see pitch side water as a convinience that means I don't > > > > necessarily have to return to the pavillion to top up between games, > not > > > > a reason not to take responsibility for my own health and fitness. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Paul Holden mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > Daniel Richards wrote: > > > > > Please can something be done to ensure a situation like the one at > > > > Mansfield > > > > > last weekend doesn't happen again, a severe lack of pitch water > > > > (especially > > > > > on the farthest pitches) combined with asking teams to play several > > > > > back-to-back games is very dangerous in such hot weather. Hopefully > > > the > > > > UKUA > > > > > can review the issue and ensure it doesn't happen again in future. > > > > > > > > > > Dan > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > > > BritDisc mailing list > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > http://www.fysh.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/britdisc > > > > > Staying informed - http://www.ukultimate.com/staying-informed > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > > BritDisc mailing list > > > > [email protected] > > > > http://www.fysh.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/britdisc > > > > Staying informed - http://www.ukultimate.com/staying-informed > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > BritDisc mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > http://www.fysh.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/britdisc > > > Staying informed - http://www.ukultimate.com/staying-informed > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > BritDisc mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://www.fysh.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/britdisc > > Staying informed - http://www.ukultimate.com/staying-informed > > _________________________________________________________________ > > __________________________________________________ > BritDisc mailing list > [email protected] > http://www.fysh.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/britdisc > Staying informed - http://www.ukultimate.com/staying-informed > > > The contents of this message and any attachments to it are confidential and > may be legally privileged. If you have received this message in error you > should delete it from your system immediately and advise the sender. > dunnhumby may monitor and record all emails. The views expressed in this > email are those of the sender and not dunnhumby. > > > __________________________________________________ > BritDisc mailing list > [email protected] > http://www.fysh.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/britdisc > Staying informed - http://www.ukultimate.com/staying-informed > > -- Lachlan Yates +44 793 197 6162 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.kransky.com/lachlan __________________________________________________ BritDisc mailing list [email protected] http://www.fysh.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/britdisc Staying informed - http://www.ukultimate.com/staying-informed
