Tor Lillqvist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes, commenting on my proposed fi.po changes to fileutils: > Finnish GNU/LI List writes: > > My proposed fi.po changes the output into: > > drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 1460 22.02.2001 17.16 bin > > drwxr-xr-x 5 root root 1024 15.01.2001 11.44 boot > > drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 1460 to 22.02.2001 17.16.19 bin > > drwxr-xr-x 5 root root 1024 ma 15.01.2001 11.44.23 boot
> Even if the 22.02.2001 format is the one most commonly used in > Finland, and I don't have anything against it when used for isolated > dates, I do think that it is stupid to use it here. Exactly in > contexts like directory listings the ISO standard format 2001-02-22 is > the most logical to use. Compare this output from ls -lt: > -rw-r--r-- 1 tml 513 18194 2001-02-25 18:32 NEWS > -rw-r--r-- 1 tml 513 0 2001-02-21 16:16 config.cache > -rwxr-xr-x 1 tml 513 228525 2001-02-20 22:37 configure~ > -rwxr-xr-x 1 tml 513 150000 2001-02-20 22:22 libtool~ > drwxr-xr-x 4 tml 513 0 2001-02-15 19:57 libltdl > drwxr-xr-x 3 tm I agree that Tor is right, the ISO format is better in the context of ls -l. Here's the modified fi.po: ------------------------------ # Finnish messages for fileutils. # Copyright © 2001 Free Software Foundation, Inc. # <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, 2001. # msgid "" msgstr "" "Project-Id-Version: fileutils 4.0t\n" "POT-Creation-Date: 2001-10-28 12:40+0100\n" "PO-Revision-Date: 2001-10-28 12:40+0100\n" "Last-Translator: Jyrki Kuoppala <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>\n" "Language-Team: Finnish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>\n" "MIME-Version: 1.0\n" "Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1\n" "Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit\n" #: src/ls.c:1370 msgid "%a %b %d %H:%M:%S %Y" msgstr "%a %Y-%2m-%2d %H.%M.%S" #: src/ls.c:1373 msgid "%b %e %Y" msgstr "%Y-%2m-%2d %H.%M" #: src/ls.c:1374 msgid "%b %e %H:%M" msgstr "%Y-%2m-%2d %H.%M" ------------------------------ quotes from earlier discussion: >Re: Proposal: fi.po for fileutils > > * From: Karl Eichwalder > * Subject: Re: Proposal: fi.po for fileutils > * Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 07:15:16 -0700 > >[ > Cleaning up the backlog; I don't remember whether I did already > process these mails. Since > /usr/share/locale/fi/LC_MESSAGES/fileutils.mo is still missing on my > system it might be worth to talk about it again. > > Maybe, the problem was solved otherwise. In this case, please > excuse my ignorance. > > Full quote because ot the enlarged Cc list; some comments by me. >] > >Jyrki Kuoppala <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> The output of ls is now: >> > $ ls -al / >> total 1006 >> drwxr-xr-x 23 root root 665 helmi 21 08:59 . >> drwxr-xr-x 23 root root 665 helmi 21 08:59 .. >> -rw-rw-r-- 1 root root 575 syys 9 18:10 .bash_history >> drwxrwxr-x 2 root root 1475 maalis 7 11:26 bin >> drwxr-xr-x 6 root root 1024 tammi 20 10:18 boot >> > $ ls --full-time -al / >> total 1006 >> drwxr-xr-x 23 root root 665 ke helmi 21 08:59:59 2001 . >> drwxr-xr-x 23 root root 665 ke helmi 21 08:59:59 2001 .. >> -rw-rw-r-- 1 root root 575 la syys 09 18:10:53 2000 .bash_history >> drwxrwxr-x 2 root root 1475 ke maalis 07 11:26:33 2001 bin >> drwxr-xr-x 6 root root 1024 la tammi 20 10:18:46 2001 boot >> drwxrwsr-x 2 root disk 266 ti tammi 09 10:45:30 2001 boot.old >> drwxrwxr-x 2 root cdrom 35 su touko 23 14:39:58 1999 cdro >> > This output is grammatically quite incorrect, and against any common >> usage in Finland. Month names are commonly not abbreviated, but >> instead the date format dd.mm.yyyy is used. >> > My proposed fi.po changes the output into: >> > $ ls -la / >> total 139 >> drwxr-xr-x 22 root root 604 26.01.2001 15.19 . >> drwxr-xr-x 22 root root 604 26.01.2001 15.19 .. >> drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 1460 22.02.2001 17.16 bin >> drwxr-xr-x 5 root root 1024 15.01.2001 11.44 boot >> drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 304 09.01.2001 13.20 boot.old >> drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 35 30.11.2000 17.24 cdrom >> > $ ls -la --full-time / >> total 139 >> drwxr-xr-x 22 root root 604 pe 26.01.2001 15.19.12 . >> drwxr-xr-x 22 root root 604 pe 26.01.2001 15.19.12 .. >> drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 1460 to 22.02.2001 17.16.19 bin >> drwxr-xr-x 5 root root 1024 ma 15.01.2001 11.44.23 boot >> drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 304 ti 09.01.2001 13.20.25 boot.old >> drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 35 to 30.11.2000 17.24.25 cdrom >> drwxr-xr-x 5 root root 27940 to 08.03.2001 06.48.12 dev >> > The first format is one character longer than the current format. If >> the extra length is an issue, the first format could be shortened to: >> > drwxr-xr-x 22 root root 604 26.01. 15.19 . >> drwxr-xr-x 22 root root 604 12.01. 1996 .. >> drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 1460 22.02. 17.16 bin >> drwxr-xr-x 5 root root 1024 15.01. 11.44 boot >> drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 304 09.01. 13.20 boot.old > drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 304 09.01. 13.20 boot.old > drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 35 30.11. 17.24 cdrom > >> which would be exactly the same length as the U.S. English default >> format. To me it would seem to be more clear to always print the >> year, but the behaviour used by the U.S. ls of printing nearby dates >> without the year now is OK, too. >> >> I did read the documentation about your requirement of a copyright >> disclaimer, and no, I haven't sent in a disclaimer for translation >> work. I have sent in a disclaimer to the FSF for software work around >> 10 years ago. >> >> However, in this case, I don't think this very short fi.po even >> qualifies as an original work by Finnish (or other?) copyright law, >> as there's no single word of original English or Finnish in it, only >> three strings of formatting symbols. So perhaps you can consider >> accepting it despite the lack of a copyright disclaimer. > >I wouldn't mind to accept it, bu Jim has to decide. It would be the >best an "official" member of the Finnish team would stand up and submit >the file to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- first, he will have to tell >me to change the registry file accordingly. >Tor Lillqvist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >> Finnish GNU/LI List writes: >> > My proposed fi.po changes the output into: >> drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 1460 22.02.2001 17.16 bin >> drwxr-xr-x 5 root root 1024 15.01.2001 11.44 boot >> drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 1460 to 22.02.2001 17.16.19 bin >> drwxr-xr-x 5 root root 1024 ma 15.01.2001 11.44.23 boot >> Even if the 22.02.2001 format is the one most commonly used in >> Finland, and I don't have anything against it when used for isolated >> dates, I do think that it is stupid to use it here. Exactly in >> contexts like directory listings the ISO standard format 2001-02-22 is >> the most logical to use. Compare this output from ls -lt: >> -rw-r--r-- 1 tml 513 18194 2001-02-25 18:32 NEWS >> -rw-r--r-- 1 tml 513 0 2001-02-21 16:16 config.cache >> -rwxr-xr-x 1 tml 513 228525 2001-02-20 22:37 configure~ >> -rwxr-xr-x 1 tml 513 150000 2001-02-20 22:22 libtool~ >> drwxr-xr-x 4 tml 513 0 2001-02-15 19:57 libltdl >> drwxr-xr-x 3 tml 513 0 2001-02-15 19:57 mail >> -rw-r--r-- 1 tml 513 9110 2001-02-05 02:24 ltdl.m4 >> -rw-r--r-- 1 tml 513 5944 2000-12-14 04:53 README >> -rwxr-xr-x 1 tml 513 647 2000-11-01 01:31 bootstrap >> to this: >> -rw-r--r-- 1 tml 513 18194 25.02.2001 18:32 NEWS >> -rw-r--r-- 1 tml 513 0 21.02.2001 16:16 config.cache >> -rwxr-xr-x 1 tml 513 228525 20.02.2001 22:37 configure~ >> -rwxr-xr-x 1 tml 513 150000 20.02.2001 22:22 libtool~ >> drwxr-xr-x 4 tml 513 0 15.02.2001 19:57 libltdl >> drwxr-xr-x 3 tml 513 0 15.02.2001 19:57 mail >> -rw-r--r-- 1 tml 513 9110 05.02.2001 02:24 ltdl.m4 >> -rw-r--r-- 1 tml 513 5944 14.12.2000 04:53 README >> -rwxr-xr-x 1 tml 513 647 01.11.2000 01:31 bootstrap >> Isn't it much easier to quickly get an impression of the file age >> distribution from the first list, where the time units are in strict >> significance order? >> Of course, the obvious question is, why doesn't ls have --date-format >> and --time-format options, then everybody could use their favourite >> format... >> --tml //Jyrki _______________________________________________ Bug-fileutils mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/bug-fileutils
