On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 11:08 AM, Assaf Arkin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 10:44 AM, Matthieu Riou <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 8:59 AM, Alex Boisvert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > >> Charter by triangulation: > >> > >> "... that the Apache Buildr project be responsible for the creation and > >> maintenance of build system, software configuration and software > lifecycle > >> management related tools." > >> > > > > I would say the net is too wide. Maven, Ant, Make or Rake could all > qualify. > > A bit of overlap is not necessarily a problem but that would be a > complete > > overlap. I'd look for something a bit more discriminating with wordings > like > > scripting based, multi-language or dependency management. > > +1 > > Instead of aspiring to be another TLA, I think we should focus on what > makes Buildr better. Scripting is the big differentiator, not any > specific feature (multi-lingual, dependency management, etc). But > it's not a goal, it's the way we cut down on the boring and tedious > work, and make the rest easier and fun. > > Builds tend to be very repetitive for the most part, but also very > specific with a lot of one-of and ad hoc customization. No two builds > are the same, snowflakes and such. > > So one thing you need in a build system: convenience, framework that > does the heavy lifting, defaults, reusable components, all standard > fare that cuts down on repetitive work and boilerplate. When you > write compile.with my_depends there's a lot of stuff happening in the > background to take care of business. > > On the other hand, Buildr is very self-service: you should be able to > solve every build problem without waiting for the next release, > without struggling with pre-fab components and their limited > configuration. That's why underneath there's a scripting language, > let imagination be the limit. > Thats going to be a long charter ;) > > Assaf > > > > > Ant has its resolution on its web site and I fished the Maven one from > what > > feels like another century, when the board meetings where much shorter > than > > now: > > > > http://ant.apache.org/mission.html > > > http://www.apache.org/foundation/records/minutes/2003/board_minutes_2003_02_26.txt > > > > IMO they're both very good examples of what we shouldn't do :) Both > reflect > > an older time when the foundation was much smaller, we should know better > > now. > > > > Matthieu > > > > > > > >> alex > >> > >> PS: I don't like the definitions of SCM and SLM in wikipedia. They > sound > >> like they were written by vendors with a very narrow vision. You could > >> say > >> SLM has almost become a euphemism for Enterprise Grade DRM <tm>. > >> > >> > >> On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 8:54 AM, Matthieu Riou <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> >wrote: > >> > >> > Hi guys, > >> > > >> > So it seems that everybody agrees it's time to get ready for > graduation. > >> > There's a nice guide that details the whole process here: > >> > > >> > http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html > >> > > >> > The trickiest part is to prepare a resolution for the board to adopt. > >> > Ultimately, that's what we will vote on, what the incubator PMC will > vote > >> > on > >> > and what the board adopts. And the trickiest parts in the resolution > >> itself > >> > are: > >> > > >> > - The target: Top Level Project or subproject of another TLP. For > >> buildr > >> > I think it would be TLP but if someone things otherwise it's a good > >> time > >> > to > >> > mention it. > >> > - The charter: this should define the scope of the project. It > should > >> be > >> > short, sweet and non ambiguous but sufficiently large in scope to > cover > >> > further expansion of the project. So getting the proper wording can > be > >> > tough. There are example here [1] and if you want more I can point > you > >> to > >> > others. > >> > - The project chair: I'll send another e-mail about that. > >> > - The future PMC: actually that's the easiest, it's usually the same > >> > composition as the PPMC. > >> > > >> > So at this point, it would be nice if someone drafted a first charter > >> > paragraph so we can increment from it. The rest of the resolution can > >> > easily > >> > be created using the charter and a few names. > >> > > >> > Thanks, > >> > Matthieu > >> > > >> > [1] http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#tlp-resolution > >> > > >> > > >
