On 2014-01-24 06:16, Denys Vlasenko wrote:
Admit it - "traditional" SysV init is neanderthal. Not merely "simple" (that's not a bad thing!) - but awkward too.
Oh, I totally agree - I wrote s6, remember ? And I'm so much more interested in getting the design and the code right than in seeing it widely adopted that I didn't even take the time to promote it - just the opposite of Lennart - which is obviously a huge oversight. systemd was so obviously inane and insane to me that I didn't even consider it could make it that big.
My objection to Pottering's onslaught on Linux is not on the basis that he writes buggy code. My objection is that he tends to write *monolithic* code. systemd requires dbus. systemd includes logging daemon.
That's exactly what I meant by "broken by design". See http://skarnet.org/software/s6/why.html and http://skarnet.org/software/s6/s6-svscan-not-1.html#systemd :) Lennart's quest for change disregards not only the current conventions (which is not a bad thing to do per se), but also the most basic software design principles as well as the core of the Unix philosophy. This guy should apply at Microsoft, they'd love him there.
It goes farther than that. Some things don't merely live in tools which systemd requires (e.g. dbus). A lot of crap is _in systemd_! (...) What the hell *TCP wrappers* or *udev* have to do with *init binary*????? (...)
Amen, brother, amen. But I'm afraid you and I will be preaching to the choir here. It's not the busybox mailing-list that we need to convince, it's the major Linux distributions. I have no idea how a piece of software that I wouldn't give a D to as an undergraduate student project made it into Fedora and Arch Linux, is threatening the whole GNU ecosystem, and is making countless people waste countless hours trying to integrate it while keeping a pretense of modularity. I'm not good at advocacy - waging political wars is bothersome and tiresome to me, and writing good code is a much better use of my time. But someone who is, and who has a tiny bit of sense of what good engineering is, should definitely step up and expose the systemd fraud, and I'm all willing, as I'm sure you are, to provide the detailed technical arguments. -- Laurent _______________________________________________ busybox mailing list busybox@busybox.net http://lists.busybox.net/mailman/listinfo/busybox