Hi Jack,

> Hi Sarah.
>
> On 06/17/09 08:44, Sarah Jelinek wrote:
>> Hi Jack,
>>
>> I cannot attend today's meeting. I do have some thoughts about this 
>> topic which I have included below.
> Bummer that you couldn't attend the meeting.  Thanks for making your 
> thoughts heard.  My replies are inline.
>>
>>> Hi everyone.
>>>
>>> I am calling a meeting tomorrow regarding AI manifest organization.  
>>> We need to discuss the structure of the files again in a context of 
>>> scalability and a compelling user experience.
>>>
>>> I request that those people explicitly addressed attend, others are 
>>> most welcome as well.
>>>
>>> Meeting logistics:
>>> 14:00 - 16:00 PST (2 hours, just in case)
>>> Toll Free Dial In Number:                (866)545-5227
>>> Int'l Access/Caller Paid Dial In Number: (215)446-3648
>>> ACCESS CODE:            7385082
>>>
>>> The main issue is that the functional spec defines two or three 
>>> files, in two different formats, and that the user will probably 
>>> have to edit them to set up an installation.  How to simplify this 
>>> from the user point of view and make this a more compelling 
>>> experience?  How to set the files up to make it as easy for a 
>>> first-time one-system user as for an admin of a large lab with many 
>>> different groups of systems?
>>>
>>> We have many factors to consider.
>>> - One hard constraint: The System Configuration (SC) manifest must 
>>> be a DTD to fit as an enhanced SMF profile.
>>> - We can't rely on existence of GUI tools to set up the files.
>>> - We don't want to have the contents of the SC manifest specified in 
>>> another schema format because we don't want to make users learn two 
>>> different formats for specifying the same data.
>> If we have a hard constraint that the SC manifest be a DTD, and we 
>> say we don't want the contents of the SC manifest to be in a 
>> different schema format, seems like conflicting requirements. 
>> Although, I don't know how hard a requirement the statement above is.
> Today I realized that, under the covers, we can pull apart a manifest 
> which has all three sections (including an SC manifest portion) before 
> validating any of the sections, so we can place all three sections in 
> one file.

Ok, sounds good.

>>
>> I think it is desirable, as much as possible, to hide the details 
>> from users with regard to the SC manifest contents. Although, 
>> anything we do to manage this means we track any changes in the SMF 
>> enhanced profiles schema. Someone has to track the changes I suppose, 
>> just a point to think about.
> We discussed today the usefulness of a tool not just for SMF setup but 
> for everything, and we will recommend that as a future enhancement.  
> We also discussed a tool which could export a running system's SMF 
> configuration to a file.  Should such a tool be developed, the file 
> structuring will be ready for it.  Being that we can't count on a tool 
> for now, we are focused on the files and their relationships for now.
>>
>> I think the real issue is not the schema definition that is 
>> different, imo, but that if the users have to manually edit and 
>> provide individual SMF enhanced profiles for every SC entry, it could 
>> be cumbersome. What is the intended delivery mechanism for any SC 
>> manifests users want for installation? I mean is this something users 
>> must provide or is provided by other groups who own the piece of SC 
>> functionality?
>>
>> If it is part of the standard OpenSolaris service definitions, 
>> couldn't we provide a way for users to override the settings that are 
>> defined in these enhanced profiles via our schema?
> The SMF profile (except for a couple of header lines specific to DTDs) 
> is XML like the rest of the manifest.  The main difference is that it 
> is validated via a DTD vs a RelaxNG schema.
>
> Being that the SMF profiles are XML just as the rest of the AI 
> manifest is, it would be all the same to the user to modify the SMF 
> profile directly rather than do it in another part of the manifest.

ok, fair enough.

>>> - RelaxNG schema is much easier to read and work with than DTDs.
>>>
>>> Agenda:
>>>
>>> Let's start with a few minutes (really) to discuss broadening the 
>>> problem statement and set the tone.  I'll suggest the following to 
>>> start things:
>>>
>>> "AI manifest structure and organization should be easy to use and 
>>> understand, and scale to a wide variety of installation environments."
>>
>> It wasn't clear to me in yesterdays discussion why we would have 2 
>> manifests in the simple case? I thought the 'standard' manifest would 
>> be only one manifest, with no sysmap pointer(the pointer would be 
>> null).  The SC stuff could be embedded in the standard AI manifest 
>> and something users could modify if they wanted. The AI manifest is 
>> then embedded in the sysmap manifest. Is this not the case?
> The terminology isn't quite accurate, but after the meeting today, it 
> changed again anyway.  It is simpler now.  One manifest with three 
> sections: criteria, installation, configuration.  Either or both of 
> the latter two sections can be populated with data, or a pointer to a 
> file containing the data.

Excellent! This sounds like a good compromise.

>>
>> I think the proposal you have currently works very well in the 
>> 'scaling to a wide variety of systems'.
> Thanks.  We kept the option of having pointers to files to those last 
> two sections for scalability.
>>
>> One thing we have talked about is making it easier for users to use 
>> AI out of the box. To setup services and understand what the client 
>> behavior will be. Is simply making the manifest(s) easier to edit a 
>> possibility to ease the learning curve? Do we know of an XML editor 
>> that might be useful for this?
> We thought that having many files and incomplete examples would make 
> it harder for users to learn.
>
> We will be proposing working examples for a single, self-contained 
> manifest; and a manifest with pointers to files containing the 
> installation and configuration sections.  These will be fully 
> commented, and list all fields to serve as an example.  They will also 
> work - out of the box.  Users can start with these and tweek them as 
> needed.

This sounds really good. Thank you for taking the time to work on the 
user experience.

sarah
*****

>
> I'll be posting meeting minutes tomorrow and a revised functional spec 
> as soon as I can.
>
>    Thanks,
>    Jack
>
>
>>
>>
>> thanks,
>> sarah
>> ****
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Then we'll move into discussing what our options are to solving this 
>>> problem.
>>>
>>>    Thanks,
>>>    Jack
>>>
>>> P.S. I'd like to leverage what we already have, at:
>>> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/caiman/XML_Parsing/xml_2_func_spec.6.pdf
>>>  
>>>
>>>
>>
>


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