Sent from my mobile device, please forgive errors and brevity. On Nov 27, 2011 10:38 AM, "Jukka Zitting" <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hi, > > +1 Great idea, thanks for pushing this! > > At first, when it became clear how disruptive the switch to svn would be, I > considered it best overall to postpone the migration to Apache infra, but > it's obviously better if there's a chance for us to actively help move > things forward. And as you say the experience of the Callback team would > likely help also the ASF in general. >
I suspect that had you approached infra during the proposal of this incubation project things would have been different. The CouchDB trial had only just started. Today, from a technical pointy of view, infra seem reasonably happy everything is OK. They expect to have the final issues resolved in January. > I'm also able and willing to help with any required backend stuff. Excellent, that adds much more weight to the proposal. Thanks. Ross > > BR, > > Jukka Zitting > > On Nov 26, 2011 11:13 PM, "Ross Gardler" <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > As some here may know, the ASF has been preparing to roll Git out to all > > projects that want it. This work had been non-trivial, the infrastructure > > team have been working on the technical issues since committing to it at > > ApacheCon in 2010 (and before that they had to figure out what the real > > issues were). > > > > This work has led to the trial in CouchDB. This trial is designed to a) > > test the technical solutions in a working project and b) educate people > > like me who have no experience of working with Git in a community project. > > > > Since becoming aware of this projects desire to "wait it out" before > moving > > to the ASF I have been seeing if there is any way of making this happen > > sooner rather than later. > > > > For example, on the infrastructure list I said: > > > > "They (PhoneGap/Callback) have an existing GitHub based community and are > a > > well respected project in their own right. The nature of their project > > means that SVN is sub-optimal for reasons we don't hear in the typical > Git Vs > > SVN arguments (in short they have lots of platform specific forks of their > > core code but seek to ensure a strong community around the core and each > of > > those forks). > > From my limited engagement with them so far I find them respectful of the > > ASFs position and willing to work with us on addressing our concerns. I'm > > not yet sure of how "Apache like" their existing community is, but I do > > find myself saying one thing as a mentor ("you are not allowed to do > this") > > whilst feeling another ("you should be allowed to help educate us here"). > I > > think we are missing an opportunity. > > > > With strong mentorship I believe this particular project could help us > > accelerate > > the evaluation of Git within ASF communities. I am a mentor and I'm > willing > > to commit to safeguarding the experiment." > > > > As you can see, I have some significant concerns. Git, as a tool, can be > > useful to a community managed project. However, it was designed for an > > entirely different management model (the Benevolent Dictator). I'm not > > currently sure of where on this spectrum PhoneGap/Callbac sits. However, > > you asked to come to the ASF, your champion is well respected by more than > > just myself and you have some great mentors (not including me of course). > I > > assume we are on fairly safe ground here. > > > > The response to my enquiries has been very positive (it's amazing how > > ill-informed bloggers can be). As a result (and because another mentor has > > stepped up to support my position) I'm willing to make a case to > > infrastructure for you to move to Git ASAP, but I have two conditions > > before I make that request. > > > > The first is that all mentors on this project support my proposal. > > > > The second condition is that the team ensure that the documentation over > on > > the CouchDB project reflects the process that this project will follow in > > managing the canonical repository here at the ASF. I want it to describe > > how you will manage committer contributions, non-committer contributions, > > IP review, releases and whatever else is important to your project. > > > > I'm not really interested in the nitty gritty of the processes, we'll work > > that out in practice. What I want is a document that convinces me that > > there will be a single canonical repository for the community to engage > > with. If I am confident you can use Git in an Apache Way style process > then > > I'm willing to make the case to infrastructure, and if necessary, the > > board. I'm reasonably sure that if you can convince me and the other > > mentors here then we can convince the infrastructure team. > > > > Since you are in the incubator and I know nothing of your current > > governance and I don't know if it is close or distant from the Apache Way. > > On the CouchDB list I have posted some comments from an ASF project member > > which defines the process they use in a git-svn environment (they came > from > > Git when they came to the ASF). This mail will, hopefully, be a useful > > starting point (or maybe its all covered in the wiki page already). See > > http://markmail.org/thread/q43mto5emnhpej2k > > > > Taking off my mentor hat for a moment and putting on my VP Community > > Development hat I will use this document, and what I learn from this > > incubation project, to help ensure that Git can be used successfully > > alongside SVN in Apache projects. > > > > However, please understand that even after all this I cannot guarantee > that > > infrastructure will agree to allow you to move to Git. However, I am > > confident enough to be willing to spend some of my time on it, hopefully > > you will be too. > > > > Are mentors OK with this? > > > > Are committers OK with this as a way forwards? Do the committers have any > > questions or observations? > > > > Ross On Nov 27, 2011 10:38 AM, "Jukka Zitting" <[email protected]> wrote:
