Thank you for taking up this position, Jeff. Because there is also a discussion of swing going on on FB, I decided to verify my thoughts with my ten year old daughter, an excellent dancer who dances both roles with equal ease. She barely comes up to my chin. First I danced the gent position and I was unsurprised to find that she took up her position, with no prompting from me, and her hand was squarely on my shoulder blade. She swung with perfect counterbalance and was easy to turn as she sensed my body shifting and removed her arm in preparation for a flourish. Then she danced the gent. Though I am considerably taller than she she had no trouble in the swing or in twirling me out. She reports that she often twirls her friends,many of whom are taller than me. She can even twirl people dancing as twins. Not everyone is as limber as she, but that is not a function of height. Andrea
Sent from my iPad On Jul 2, 2013, at 8:08 PM, Jeff Kaufman <j...@alum.swarthmore.edu> wrote: > On Tue, Jul 2, 2013 at 11:27 AM, John Sweeney <i...@contrafusion.co.uk> wrote: >> that only applies if the lady places her hand on the man's back. >> I never teach that. I always tell ladies to rest their arm gently on the >> man's upper arm. > > When the lady rests their hand on the gent's upper arm they're not > helping hold the two people together. When I'm dancing as the gent I > much prefer to dance with ladies where the swing can be symmetrical in > terms of weight distribution. Otherwise my right arm has to do twice > as much work, and my wrist gets sore. > > For an example of the kind of hold I'm taking about, here's an example > from your website: > http://www.contrafusion.co.uk/Videos.html#GlensideContra > I'm the young bearded guy at the front facing the camera (2007 gets > longer ago every year). You can see that me, my partner, and my > neighbors, all put our left hands on the other person's back when > swinging as the lady. Several videos down on the same page you c > see a video of the Concord Scout House, and every lady there is > helping support their weight by putting their left hand on the gent's > back. > >> >> 1) The man, who, on average, has longer arms, reaches under the lady's arm >> to very easily reach her shoulder-blade. The lady, with her (on average) >> shorter arms and probably starting from lower down, has to reach OVER the >> man's arm to get to his shoulder-blade. Yes, some ladies can reach. But in >> my experience many ladies cannot easily reach and still be comfortable. > > If the gent bends their right arm a little bit more than the lady > bends their left, then this should just work. But if some people's > arms aren't long enough for this to work, that's fine. Just as long > as most ladies I meet while dancing the gent will still be trying to > do their share. > >> >> 2) If they can just reach, many ladies then, instead of just placing their >> hand on the man's shoulder-blade (so that when centrifugal force increases >> they can resist it) they actually press into the man's shoulder-blade. I am >> not sure if this is just bad technique, but I suspect it may be partially to >> do with the fact that they can only just reach so they press so that their >> hand doesn't slip. It can be quite uncomfortable for the man. > > I've only seen this occasionally, with new dancers who haven't figured > out how to give weight evenly. Is this actually that common? > >> >> 3) Even if the lady's arm is the same length as the man, and she is the same >> height, she still has to reach over his arm, so it automatically pulls you >> closer together than you need to be, and even closer if her arm is shorter. >> While there are fun swing variations where we get really, really close, in a >> standard buzz-step swing I don't believe that being forced closer together >> is desirable. > > I'm not very comfortable dancing close to arbitrary people, and you > won't see me sleaze dancing at contras. But we're talking about being > maybe 10% closer than you would need to be otherwise. This is a small > change. > >> >> 4) It is not necessary if the man's hand is well placed. As you say each >> supports their own weight, so all the connection is doing is resisting >> centrifugal force and, in nearly 50 years of swinging, I have never found >> that a problem. > > I think you may have stronger wrists than I do. I regularly find my > right wrist hurts after swinging with ladies who don't help support > their weight. I also hear women complain about this a lot when they > try dancing the gent for the first time. > >> >> 5) It is quite common for the lady to twirl under the man's arm at the end >> of a swing. If the lady twirls counter-clockwise that is not a problem. But >> if she twirls clockwise then she will break her arm. Probably not a problem >> is the lady is completely in control of the twirl - she just prepares for it >> by moving her arm, but if the man takes some part in initiating the twirl >> (which I believe is very common) then if he tries to twirl her and she >> reacts slowly then either the twirl fails or she gets hurt. Of course if >> the lady's left hand is just resting on the man's upper arm she can twirl >> either way without a problem. The hand just slides off easily. > > I'm a little confused here. The difference in hand positions is very > small and I can't picture how it would lead to people getting hurt. > But I probably need to see a demo with people on the floor before I'll > understand your point. > >> 6) In complex flourishes, such as a Texas Tommy/Apache Whip exit from a >> swing, then you really do need some lead and follow, and it is nearly always >> the man leading the lady. A move like that is impossible if the lady's left >> hand is on the man's back. Believe me I have tried it! > > When I dance as the gent I do quite a bit of leading, and I haven't > had any problem, even with complex flourishes. Similarly, when I > dance as the lady I put my hand on the gents back and again I haven't > noticed any problems. > >> >> I hope that helps you understand why I always teach the lady to leave her >> relaxed left arm resting on the man's upper arm. :-) > > I think we could probably understand each other much better in person > with demonstration. If you're in Boston some time let me know and > check out one of our BIDA dances; I'll try to make it to one of yours > if I'm ever in Kent. > > Kent > _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > call...@sharedweight.net > http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
