Chad, It seems like this healthy civic conversation is drawing to a close, which is good in the interests of time. I think that key issues to include in a Wiki article could be:
1) The incommensurability of many political viewpoints (e.g. abortion). This word "incommensurability" I borrow from the foremost moral philosopher in the English-speaking world Alasdair MacIntyre (Dr. MacIntyre's 40 year+ career has included teaching at Vanderbilt, Duke and now Notre Dame), and MacIntyre's main argument concerning contemporary moral debates is that the exact terminology used has different meanings to different groups, is derived from different historical eras and different philosophical schools, and so the end result is a set of debates in which people end up "speaking past one another." For example, the word "justice" can be used by either political party, but have drastically different meanings and usages.
2) Based upon such incommensurability of moral terms, the result is a different set of "vital issues" (e.g. a Party's or candidate's platform). For some, abortion is the paramount issue, as was the case in the Republican gubernatorial primaries in which Tom Gallagher and Charlie Crist battled for the Party nomination almost exclusively on the abortion issue and with Charlie Crist successfully defending himself from Gallagher's critique by focusing on Gallagher's inconsistency on various issues (i.e. being a "flip-flopper").
Concerning my organization, my full bio and C-V are listed on www.abidinglifephoenix.com and I am currently a Chaplain in the Army and will work this upcoming election as a Clerk of Elections. Basically, I am more someone who knows a bunch of people through teaching theology, ministerial work, military chaplaincy, etc. Sure I could say that I am "one phone call removed from Condoleeza Rice or Karl Rove" and this would be true, but as you know in politics, such connections are complicated, based upon who has the most clout on a given day, etc. For example, Mark Klein, MD, a political ally and friend has been listed as high as #1 in the Iowa Republican 2008 Presidential poll where many fundamentalist Christians are located (and who love him as a Jewish candidate!), but then Dr. Klein would receive scarcely a mention in the Human Events on-line poll.
In short, I teach, do military stuff, and just know a bunch of people . . .
Blessings,
Rob
CH Rob J. King, M.Div., Th.M., Ph.D. (ABD*)
Chaplain, 345th, AR-MEDCOM
Professor of Bible and Christian Ministry Grand Canyon University-Online
Abiding Life Christian Ministries--Phoenix
http://abidinglifephoenix.com/default.aspx
Abiding Life Christian Ministries--Phoenix
http://abidinglifephoenix.com/default.aspx
From: "Chad Lupkes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Campaigns-l] Help a good cause and get a look at awikidrivenletter writing campaign.
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 13:43:18 -0700
>Rev. King,
>
>Thanks for the engaging discussion. My goal is to try and steer
>conversations into a positive direction, and I'm glad to see that
>you
>are willing to do that as well.
>
>Getting rid of the soundbyte culture is what we are all about. They
>are too easy to use, and contribute nothing new to the discussion.
>
>Everyone on this list, and I would dare to say everyone everywhere,
>wants this basic truth to be part of the discussion. We want the
>world that our children will grow up in to be a better world than
>the
>one that we live in. That is what Jesus wanted, that is what
>Mohammed
>wanted, that's what Buddha wanted. Let's find a way to make it
>reality instead of a dream.
>
>At the same time, none of us should paint with such a broad brush.
>There are Catholic organizations that are pro-choice as well.
>Sojourners is a Evangelical Christian organization that probably
>wouldn't agree with that paint either. I don't know how Islam or
>Buddhism deal with the question, and I don't want to guess. I'm
>glad
>that the Democrats for Life organization exists, and I wish that
>Pro-choice Republicans were welcomed alongside the Log Cabin
>Republicans. They're not, as evidenced by the antics that occured
>in
>New York in 2004. So let's not kid ourselves.
>
>The main question right now is how we create an article on Campaigns
>Wikia that allows for the diversity of backgrounds and opinions,
>without limiting the discussion to soundbytes. Abortion is not my
>top
>issue, so I'm not a good person to "debate" with on the subject. I
>can't back up facts and I can't defend myself against all the
>fiction
>that is out there. So I don't bother most of the time.
>
>But we don't want to use this mailing list as the debate platform.
>It
>will drive people away, and in fact already has. And it will
>polarize
>the membership. That is to be avoided at all costs. I hope you
>agree. There are literally thousands of mailing lists out there for
>specific issue based discussions, so let's leave it there.
>
>Please post some information about your organization on the site.
>I'd
>like to learn more.
>
>Chad Lupkes
>Volunteer Admin - Campaigns Wikia.
>
>On 10/19/06, CH Rob J King
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>Chad,
>>
>>
>>Thank you for your open and challenging commentary. If all
>>political
>>discourse could be handled at this level (rather than
>>"sound-bytes") than we
>>would have a more JUST society because opposing sides could better
>>unite
>>around the common ground of TRUTH found in the other's political
>>convictions
>>(e.g. Republicans agreeing with Senator Kennedy's advocacy for the
>>working
>>poor and Democrats agreeing with President Bush's Pro-Life stance).
>>
>>I will not go into the explicitly religious side of the debate
>>other than to
>>say that Jews, Christians, Muslems and Buddhists are all firmly
>>pro-life,
>>and yes the "elite" few do try to dictate law on top of such a
>>religious
>>majority (imposed secularism that tries to silence any perspective
>>other
>>than its own, a raw "will to power" on secularism's part critiqued
>>firmly by
>>French secular post-modern philosopher Michel Foucault).
>>
>>Concerning abortion, all that you have mentioned is also correct,
>>and a
>>group called "Democrats for Life"
>>http://www.democratsforlife.org/ is trying to limit the
>>need for abortions.
>>
>>Thank you for the dialogue, and let's keep in touch
>>http://abidinglifephoenix.com/aboutus.aspx (I work some
>>with Mark Klein, MD whose ads/blogs appear regularly in The
>>Washington
>>Times)
>>
>>Blessings,
>>
>>Rob J. King
>>CH Rob J. King, M.Div., Th.M., Ph.D. (ABD*)
>>Chaplain, 345th, AR-MEDCOM
>>Professor of Bible and Christian Ministry Grand Canyon
>>University-Online
>>Abiding Life Christian Ministries--Phoenix
>>http://abidinglifephoenix.com/default.aspx
>>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>>________________________________
>>From: "Chad Lupkes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>Reply-To: [email protected]
>>To: [email protected]
>>CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED],
>>[EMAIL PROTECTED],[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>Subject: Re: [Campaigns-l] Help a good cause and get a look at a
>>wikidrivenletter writing campaign.
>>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 11:17:02 -0700
>>
>> >Rob,
>> >
>> >Doesn't the Bible teach that life begins at the first breath?
>>Isn't
>> >part of the mythology that Mary had to decide whether or not to
>>end
>> >her pregnancy? Or at least whether Joseph would stay with Mary
>> >until
>> >the child was born?
>> >
>> >If it is against the Western tradition to "kill babies" or (my
>> >addition) allow them to be killed, why don't our laws require
>>that
>> >all
>> >children receive free health care paid for by the community from
>>the
>> >moment of conception to the moment of natural death? Why aren't
>>we
>> >do
>> >everything in our power to prevent abortions by teaching our
>> >teenagers
>> >about birth control along side the "just say no" concept that is
>> >failing us so badly?
>> >
>> >I'll tell you why. Because the Catholic Church teaches that we
>>will
>> >pay for our sins in some future eternity, and that any suffering
>> >that
>> >we have to endure in this life is insignificant. The same
>>mentality
>> >teaches radical Muslims that their reward in a future life will
>>be
>> >beyond their imagination if they create suffering for their
>>enemies
>> >in
>> >this life.
>> >
>> >It's a lie. It's a tool used to encourage the domination of the
>> >many
>> >under the hand of the few. It's a justification used to force
>> >people
>> >to tolerate the intolerable, to allow the inexcusable and to
>> >accomplish the unthinkable.
>> >
>> >We have one world. This one. We have one life to have an
>>influence
>> >over. This one. The Bible tells us to be "fruitful and multiply".
>> >It does not tell us to be fruitful and multiply to the point that
>> >our
>> >population numbers make life unbearable and unsustainable. G-d
>>set
>> >the rules of the game, and has granted us with free will to play
>>the
>> >game. If we destroy the game board, G-d is not going to save us.
>> >He
>> >will wait a few million years and try again with a new species.
>>He
>> >has all the time in the Universe. We don't.
>> >
>> >I will agree to a 100% ban on abortions when we have completely
>> >eliminated unwanted pregnancy from the earth. If we could work
>> >together, we could do both. Big "IF", isn't it.
>> >
>> >Chad Lupkes
>> >Volunteer Admin - Campaigns Wikia
>> >
>> >On 10/19/06, CH Rob J King
>> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>Jennifer,
>> >>
>> >>When I first read your Wiki-campaign e-mail, I thought what a
>> >>wonderful idea
>> >>to seek multi-partisanship! Indeed, issues such as the
>> >>Environment, a
>> >>Living Wage and the War in Iraq are obviously not just
>>Republican
>> >>or
>> >>Democrat or Independent issues because they affect everyone (no
>> >>clean water
>> >>in the Desert SouthWest = Environmental catastrophe!).
>> >>
>> >>Concerning the killing of babies, however, a practice condemned
>> >>throughout
>> >>the history of the Western legal tradition (from the 4th century
>> >>under the
>> >>Roman Emperor Constantine, throughout the history of Europe and
>>N.
>> >>America
>> >>and well into the 20th century prior to 1972), this is an issue
>> >>where no
>> >>common ground can be found.
>> >>
>> >>For example, the Catholic Church, an organization that has 1
>> >>billion members
>> >>firmly condemns this practice as an intrinsically evil act.
>> >>Similarly,
>> >>Pentecostal Christianity, a type of religious _expression_ with
>>500
>> >>million+
>> >>members, also firmly condemns this practice as murder. In that
>>the
>> >>United
>> >>States with a population of only 300 million, and by a vote of
>>only
>> >>5-4 in
>> >>Roe v. Wade has wrongly determined that babies deserve no legal
>> >>protection
>> >>to live, the burden of proof now lies with the United States of
>> >>America in
>> >>demonstrating why the lives of babies should not be protected.
>> >>Indeed, even
>> >>Islam and Buddhism, two other major world religions have similar
>> >>prohibitions against taking the lives of babies.
>> >>
>> >>Sincerely,
>> >>
>> >>Rob J. King, Republican
>> >>
>> >>cc: Randall Terry, Pro-Life Activist
>> >>
>> >> Ken Mehlman, Chair of the Republican National Committee
>> >>
>> >> Dave Plummer, Coalition of Spirit-Filled Churches
>> >>
>> >> Sr. Jacinta Krecek, OSF, Diocese of South Bend/Ft. Wayne
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>CH Rob J. King, M.Div., Th.M., Ph.D. (ABD*)
>> >>Chaplain, 345th, AR-MEDCOM
>> >>Professor of Bible and Christian Ministry Grand Canyon
>> >>University-Online
>> >>Abiding Life Christian Ministries--Phoenix
>> >>http://abidinglifephoenix.com/default.aspx
>> >>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> >>
>> >>________________________________
>> >>From: "Jennifer M." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> >>Reply-To: [email protected]
>> >>To: [email protected]
>> >>Subject: [Campaigns-l] Help a good cause and get a look at a
>>wiki
>> >>drivenletter writing campaign.
>> >>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 17:34:06 -0700
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>Hi guys,
>> >>I know this isn't totally on topic for this list, but you guys
>>are
>> >>totally
>> >>tapped into wikis and it seemed like you might be interested.
>>I've
>> >>been
>> >>working on a letter writing campaign for the last 40 hours and a
>> >>wiki turned
>> >>out to be the most useful part of it... and it's taught me that
>>it
>> >>maybe
>> >>would be good to have some templates laying around a wiki to
>>make
>> >>something
>> >>like this easier to throw together. You might be curious even if
>> >>you're not
>> >>interested in the political cause itself just because this might
>> >>become a
>> >>standard part of campaigns wikia as it grows and evolves.
>>Anyway,
>> >>I'll cut
>> >>to the political blurb now :-)
>> >>
>> >>...
>> >>
>> >>Harry Welty is a Congressional Candidate running to represent
>> >>Duluth,
>> >>Minnesota. He's also affiliated himself with Unity08 and the
>>Unity
>> >>Movement,
>> >>a multipartisan movement with the goal of getting national
>> >>attention off
>> >>divisive issues like abortion and onto issues that will
>>seriously
>> >>affect the
>> >>welfare of Americans for generations to come, like the massive
>> >>National Debt
>> >>that threatens to fiscally cripple the U.S. just in time for our
>> >>young
>> >>people to inherit it.
>> >>
>> >>If this is the first time you've heard about Harry Welty you can
>> >>get a quick
>> >>one page summary with links to his blog and his campaign website
>>at
>> >>this
>> >>website:
>> >>
>> >>http://unitysupporters.com/wiki/index.php?title=Harry_Welty
>> >>
>> >>Harry was been told by the Duluth News Tribune and the local
>>public
>> >>television station WDSE PBS-8 that he can't debate because he
>> >>doesn't belong
>> >>to a political party that fielded a candidate who won at least
>>5%
>> >>of the
>> >>vote in the previous election. 14 years ago Harry Welty ran as
>>an
>> >>*unknown*
>> >>independent against Oberstar and took 7% of the vote. Since then
>> >>he's served
>> >>on the Duluth School Board and been a columnist for The Reader
>> >>Weekly. *So
>> >>far* that doesn't matter to the people in charge of the debates
>> >>(but we're
>> >>trying to change that).
>> >>
>> >>The decision makers seem to care about political machinery
>>instead
>> >>of
>> >>people, parties instead of candidates. It's not right. Harry
>> >>deserves a
>> >>chance in the debates. Please forward this email to everyone you
>> >>know who
>> >>might be interested. Then go to the link below and learn about
>> >>emails and
>> >>phone calls you can make to try to help Harry get chance in the
>> >>debates:
>> >>
>> >>http://unitysupporters.com/wiki/index.php?title=Letter_Campaign_For_Harry_Welty
>> >>
>> >>Thanks for taking the time to read this, thanks for taking the
>>time
>> >>to pass
>> >>this on, and thanks for visiting the link above and doing
>>something
>> >>to help
>> >>Harry. Please do it fast. The debates are on Friday, October 20,
>> >>2006 and
>> >>after that point forwarding this or sending email won't be very
>> >>useful.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >_______________________________________________
>> >> >Campaigns-l mailing list
>> >> >[email protected]
>> >> >http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/campaigns-l
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>_______________________________________________
>> >>Campaigns-l mailing list
>> >>[email protected]
>> >>http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/campaigns-l
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >_______________________________________________
>> >Campaigns-l mailing list
>> >[email protected]
>> >http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/campaigns-l
>>
>>_______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>>
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